Jonathan Badeen:
I woke up one morning, just literally woke up, sat up in bed, and was like, oh my god. I got it.

Connell Barrett:
And welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I'm your host, dating coach, Connell Barrett. I'm here to help you learn to flirt, gain confidence, and attract an incredible girlfriend, all by being authentic. No sketchy pickup artist moves needed. And today, we have a pretty amazing, pretty special guest. I'm really psyched to welcome to the podcast, Jonathan Badeen. Jonathan isn't just the co-founder of Tinder, but he's the mastermind behind the iconic swiping feature that has changed the way online dating happens, forever. Thanks to his work, billions of people have swiped, have matched, have connected, and essentially totally reshaped how we date in the digital age.

Connell Barrett:
These days, Jonathan is very busy watching a lot of TV and going to Disney World. More about that in a second. And he's really an innovator and we're lucky to have him and he's gonna help you have some sex some success with online dating and find some really great dates and have some success. So, Jonathan, thank you so much for joining me on the how to get a girlfriend podcast.

Jonathan Badeen:
Thanks for having me. It's awesome to be here.

Connell Barrett:
Let me start with a play devil's advocate about something. I'll tell you something I hear from a lot of my clients when I send them to tinder and to other online dating platforms they say ah tinder come on that's for hookups it's for casual flings It's not where I'm gonna find love. It's not where I'm gonna find a girlfriend. What's your response to that?

Jonathan Badeen:
I'd say, 2 parts to that. 1, you know, most relationships probably started with a hookup. So just because people, you know, a large contingent of users on Tinder I think it's a majority. I don't know the latest numbers or whatnot. But, you know, they're actually looking for a relationship. Doesn't mean they're not open to a hookup, but

Connell Barrett:
Yeah.

Jonathan Badeen:
So there is that. But on top of that, it is used for everything. It's, you know, the number of marriages that have happened is insane. Then, you know, I get invited to different weddings and stuff like that. And it's really what you make of it. I think some of that stigma really came out of the fact that, like, we launched, we launched the app on college campuses, this sort of where we started. And, you know, and that's kinda that that market, that's kinda what they do. You know? They're a little bit more hookups, centric and all, and so it kind of came from that.

Jonathan Badeen:
But it really isn't. It's whatever it is that you're looking for, you should be able to find it on Tinder and, of course, the other platforms.

Connell Barrett:
Absolutely. I have dated some wonderful women I met on Tinder and other apps, but we're gonna talk about Tinder today for obvious reasons. And I had some flings, and I had some real relationships, and I had, to your point, I had a couple things that I've that started off seemingly casual, but then they became something a lot deeper. Mhmm. So, yeah, something casual or what you might think is casual at the beginning can actually become something longer lasting. Right?

Jonathan Badeen:
Well, it starts off with less pressure. It's a little bit easier to be your more authentic self when it's a low pressure like that.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. I've also found it a lot easier to get a woman out on a date with you, looking at it from the straight male perspective. It's easier to get a lot of women out on a date with you if it just seems low pressure. It's like, hey, we're gonna have fun. We're gonna have a drink or 2. We'll talk. We'll chat. Who knows what might happen, as opposed to I must find my soul mate on this date.

Connell Barrett:
So there's nothing wrong with having low pressure. It's just a way to get more people out on dates with you.

Jonathan Badeen:
Absolutely. I can relate, quite a bit, to that. I know when, I used to have a really hard time dating, and went up before Tinder. And, you know, every time I did go out on a date, which was very rare, there would be such pressure on me. If you know, self in, self induced pressure, thinking like, oh, you know, is this my when is I gotta make the best of this because I don't know when the next date's gonna be, you know, you know, and try to to to make the most of everything to the point, like, I I have a literal sweat, you know, like stains on my shirt and stuff. And then once I, once we built Tinder, it made it easy enough for me to just kind of go on enough dates. Just it was like I didn't care so much anymore about whether this is the one or whatever. It's like all I care about is going out, having a drink or something, meeting this person, and if it works out great, awesome.

Jonathan Badeen:
If it doesn't, I'll go out with somebody tomorrow or, you know, next week. It's no big deal, and to the point where it was, it kind of flipped. So, in the future, it was sort of a lot of times, the women I'd go out with would be the ones who are more nervous, and I was the one who's just chill, because it was not a big deal, it was not a big deal to me at that point. That was the thing.

Connell Barrett:
Had options.

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. And I wasn't there to, like, hook up or anything. It was just, it was just not, I wasn't I wasn't, you know, putting my entire future into that night.

Connell Barrett:
That's so insightful what you just said. I didn't know that about you, that you had a relative scarcity of dates or dating options back in the day. Is that right?

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. I would say so. I think that just me being, you know, I think I probably could have got plenty of dates, but I I didn't have the confidence or the, you know, just that it was me going up and hitting on a girl or something like that was was not going to happen generally, which makes it a little hard to, you know, ask somebody out. And that's where but I'm I'm much more comfortable in a digital sense, a little bit of protection of a screen between me and a person

Connell Barrett:
Yeah.

Jonathan Badeen:
To take that initiative then.

Connell Barrett:
Do me a favor. Do you have any memorable dates from before you came up with the idea for using a swiping dating app? Do you remember any of the early dates you had early on that led you to create or co-create Tinder when you realize, you know what, I gotta I gotta change some things here based on some problems I have, and that led you on the path to Tinder. Any dating stories from back in the day that were relevant to you?

Jonathan Badeen:
You know, I wouldn't say that there were any specific stories that that led to it, and a lot of the impetus for, for Tinder was my cofounder, had had noticed some of the issues with the existing products that were out there. But, you know, I think just generally in trouble the the troubles I had made me a little bit more open to the idea of trying to create something, you know, because, between just meeting people in the world or using things, that existed back then like match.com or okcupid and all, the kinds of things where I'd go out with, you know, people where it's it's very clear that they were just out for me to buy them a meal and, you know, essentially ghosting me afterwards and stuff like that. I think that was from Myspace back in the day. You know, so, but I think to myself, I kind of forget about that stuff. To me, the most memorable part was just how absolutely nervous I was. And and and like I said, I'm not exaggerating about the amount of sweat that I had Really? Pouring off of me. So I think, you know, whether those things happen or not, whether that, you know, would have deterred Tinder from being created, I don't know. But it, you know, it sure did make me maybe slightly more motivated to figure out a platform that would work for me a little bit better.

Connell Barrett:
Well, what's amazing about Tinder or any online dating app, once you get it working for you, is it can give you lots of dates, lots of options, an abundance of options. And to your point from a couple of minutes ago, it can make it so much easier for you to relax on a date because all of a sudden the stakes are not as high if you have 2 or 3 more good leads in your inbox, in your queue. Is that what you started to feel once you started getting some more dates from online dating?

Jonathan Badeen:
Oh, exactly. It was that. It was the fact I was, you know, the first few Tinder dates were much like the, you know, pre Tinder dates. But after that, it was just like, oh, well, I've got another one tomorrow. And maybe in the back of my mind, I'm even thinking about that date tomorrow instead of the one that I'm on, right now. Not that you should be very focused on whoever you're with or whatever. But, I mean, just like, it's just that there just isn't that pressure. You'd realize how many people there are out there, you know, especially in a big city like Los Angeles.

Jonathan Badeen:
But, you know, you realize how many different options there are, and, and and you have a way to find them.

Connell Barrett:
I remember I felt the same way as you. I had very few dating options back when I first started working on my dating life, when I realized I needed to. I had a scarcity of options. If I had one date every 3 months, that would be a really good quarter for me. Yeah. So the pressure was on. And I remember it was a combination of Tinder and Match. I was using those 2 platforms.

Connell Barrett:
And I remember one night through both of those platforms, mainly Tinder, I had 3 straight dates and 3 straight nights, and 3 different really cool cute girls, and all 3 dates went pretty well. I think I made out with all 3 girls in all 3 nights. And I walked home on that 3rd night thinking, oh my gosh, I didn't know that I was that attractive to women. And I think I took all the credit in the moment, but it was the platforms that were making it that were giving me the beginnings of abundance, the beginnings of some options, and that felt amazing to my confidence.

Jonathan Badeen:
Mhmm. Well, it's you. It's just a matter of pulling you out. You know? It is. It's, you know, these platforms are nothing more than, you know, I in many ways, I see them less as dating services and more as introduction services. You know, they're not there for you on the date. They're there to get you introduced to somebody for the date. And I think, you know, it's what you make of them and, you know, and and and how that affects you and and and allows you to come out of your shell or, you know, express yourself.

Connell Barrett:
A lot of guys struggle with what to talk about on dates, and how to hold a good conversation. Do you remember I'm gonna ask you to summon your younger, singular self. When you first started getting some good options, do you remember any tips that began to work for you especially when you felt more comfortable?

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. I mean, I guess, to me, you know, it's it's always just a little bit about, you know, what you do and what your family I mean, obviously, you know, you don't wanna focus too much on, you know, what what you do that sometimes can be a a bad thing to some, but I mean, it is a big part of our life, you know, and try to figure out, the other person's interests and just sort of you know, I for me, it was generally just trying to to keep it sort of natural. The most, you know, trying to force something was where it probably wasn't gonna go well. Yeah. And so it was, yeah, it was just trying to learn about the person. And if the other person's interested and or if they're, you know, good at it, they're gonna be asking you a lot of questions. And Right. At some point, you just really have to figure out, like, wait.

Jonathan Badeen:
Am I the am I am I answering too many questions? I should probably be, you know, you know, engaging the other person more too and learning.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. One of the tips I share with my clients and I'll share right now with the listener is if you catch yourself asking more than 3 straight questions without her asking you a question, feel free to answer one of your own questions as if you were asking yourself. So if you say, oh, where'd you go to college? Oh, what year did you graduate? Oh, what did you major in? Take a pause and say, okay. I'm gonna answer that last question myself as if she asked me. That way you're not constantly trying to interrogate her. Yeah. Because that quote unquote interview mode, I'm sure you've heard about that. Right?

Jonathan Badeen:
Of course. Of course. Yeah. No. I think I think that's important. And for me that comes naturally. I'm somebody who just, you know, that's probably one of my own downfalls. I'm all too eager to share the same information that I've asked somebody else.

Connell Barrett:
Fair enough. Fair enough. And okay. So let's go back to the story of how you came up with swiping. And, we were talking right before I hit record about what the truth is, there's there's some myth about this that you got the idea for swiping in the shower, which maybe there's that's an apocryphal story, tell us the truth, what's the story of how you came up with the right swipe?

Jonathan Badeen:
Well, first off, it is a cool story, but that's the the not not quite as true story, which is, you know, I had the epiphany, some basically coming out of the shower, looking at a mirror that was all fogged up, and wiping the mirror only to reveal my face, and thus the swipe was born.

Connell Barrett:
Sounds good.

Jonathan Badeen:
It sounds amazing. It sounds amazing. I'm sure it's gonna be in a movie or something at some point but it's it's it's slightly based upon the real story which was I actually would not I actually came up with it prior to Tinder and I came up with it for a flashcards, educational flashcards app that I had been thinking about problems with it and it really had to do with trying to solve very specific problems like while you try to study for your flashcards while walking the class one handed, eliminating buttons and, you know, trying to indicate whether you got the card right or wrong and all of those sorts of things and I woke up one morning just literally woke up sat up in bed and was like oh my god I got it and I had been basically the swipe had been born for this flashcards app and I was like I've gotta make this thing you know it's this is the the best way to make a flashcards app. Fast forward a few months though and and that's actually when I had met Sean, my co founder Sean Rad and we were showing each other our work and I showed him the flashcards app and all and then when we ended up making Tinder we just ended up with an interface that was a stack of cards and it was sort of it was it was a serendipitous basically and we just kind of I ended up throwing the swipe in there. I would never have come up with it for Tinder because I wasn't trying to solve those problems. You have a big heart and an x button in there, didn't, you know, didn't need it, but, but it felt right to put it in there and we didn't even tell people about it we weren't trying to be sneaky or anything really it was just it was like if you figured it out it's like figuring out you know command or control c on your keyboard instead of clicking the copy button or something, you know, it's just a keyboard shortcut and, it was, so it was not, it wasn't some big thing that we were like, we're going to change the world with the swipe or whatever. It was, and it was a few months later that, we had a college student write in and he's said something along the lines of that he and his buddies walking down the street or campus or something like that that they would say swipe right and swipe left as code, about the ladies passing by.

Connell Barrett:
Wow. Changing the lexicon that early.

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. And that was the moment where to me I was all of a sudden I was like, oh my god. We tapped into something. Like this is is and it wasn't long after that where we actually did start including the swipe terminology in our marketing you know in our Twitter accounts or Instagram and all of that sort of stuff and, so we started talking about it that way but it was, that was really only in response for from it sort of taking a life of its own.

Connell Barrett:
That's amazing. So the shower moment didn't happen, but what kind of

Jonathan Badeen:
The shower where the shower did come in was like this so I woke up with this epiphany and I went in . I go into the shower and I'm standing there in the shower like going like I'm like, does that work? Is that you know, why hasn't anybody done this before? You know? So so I was like it was I was like basically thinking through it, you know, completely in the shower, but there was no fogged up mirror, you know, but this

Connell Barrett:
Thank you for setting the record straight.

Jonathan Badeen:
Of course.

Connell Barrett:
Let's talk a little bit of how what you've seen works for men on Tinder in terms of strategy. And let's start with authenticity. That's my in a couple words, I'm all about being authentic. Show women your true real best self. Because in my experience, and with my clients, in my clients experience, the more generic, the more the more you try to say the perfect right thing, the more a guy tends to get in his head. Mhmm. And the more bland you come off. But if you really commit to being you in an attractive but genuine way, that's not going to attract every woman, of course, but it's going to attract women who are more your type.

Connell Barrett:
So for example, I'm a nerd. I love musical theater. I love the Beatles and Abraham Lincoln. I'll talk. I'll actually talk about some of these things on dates or with women. Can you talk a little bit about authenticity, being yourself, how that can and does work, if you agree that it can and does work, on Tinder, on dating apps?

Jonathan Badeen:
Well, I think it absolutely does. I mean, ultimately, it's only going to that's the only way you're going to succeed, you know, unless you are strictly looking for hookups and, you know, can keep the lie going or something for a while. But yeah. You know, ultimately, whatever facade that you put up, it's going to break down. So you might as well start off and get the people that you're, you know, as you said, who are more going to be more interesting to you or and interested in you. But Tinder in many ways was really built to try to drive authenticity. I, you know, I don't think people realize this today as much, but, you know, some of the features that we originally did were including things like shared friends, that was sort of taken away from us at a certain point, but, but that was a big thing. And and for sort of safety, and you could essentially vet people but it was trying to show that authentic person you you you didn't get to choose your name on there you didn't get to choose your the original version of Tinder you could even change choose your photo who is your Facebook photo and it was locked to that trying to get you know that that real photo that you share with your family and friends.

Jonathan Badeen:
It showed your shared interest with the person that, you know, of course today it's useless but the, you know, based upon Facebook interest like, you know, you're not sitting there lying these are the things that you liked on Facebook, You know, you weren't doing it for the purpose of that. So I think that that was really what we were trying to do. You know, of course, people have other ideas a lot of the time, but, but that is where we were really going. And because we think it is. We thought it was so important, to sort of show an authentic side of oneself. And, you know, people are gonna see through it, if you're not. And it's going to, at worst turn or at best turn somebody off away to at worst make somebody think you're creepy and you know and deceitful

Connell Barrett:
absolutely I had a first date once this is in my book where I was trying so hard to be what I thought she wanted.

Jonathan Badeen:
Mhmm.

Connell Barrett:
Her name is Lauren. Her profile on Tinder was all about I want an adventure man. I like a man who's into adventure outdoorsiness. So I'm on a date. I'm lying through my teeth about how I love to go swimming with sharks in the Caribbean. Total BS.

Jonathan Badeen:
I have done that once, but I've not.

Connell Barrett:
What did you do?

Jonathan Badeen:
Well, sharks in the Caribbean.

Connell Barrett:
I thought I was. I thought I invented lying about sharks in the Caribbean.

Jonathan Badeen:
No. I did it once. I'm I'm not suggesting you should go do it, but it's, it's not really Well,

Connell Barrett:
you actually swam with sharks in the

Jonathan Badeen:
Caribbean. Yeah.

Connell Barrett:
I did. Oh, I see what you mean. I see. Oh, okay. Well, you actually could have said it and been honest

Jonathan Badeen:
about it. I was not an adventurous person.

Connell Barrett:
Sorry. Sorry for interrupting. No. You're fine. You're fine. But I just said, oh, I'm gonna say what Lauren needs to hear. And of course, her friend zoned me, she ghosted me. Not because she could probably tell I was lying, she could probably but she could probably tell there's just something off about this guy.

Connell Barrett:
Mhmm. But then once I started showing women, and in fact, I had a second chance with her, I started leaning into that nerdy, dorky, smart ass I am, like a sweet a sweet ginger nerd, but a little bit of edge through sarcasm. She liked that type. And so, yeah, I just had to drop the facade. And what's so cool about Tinder, or I think what or what Tinder did in the world of dating is it said, hey. Let's really let you show your freak flag. Mhmm. You're authentic quirky whatever self you are and let's draw people in who like your type.

Connell Barrett:
Right?

Jonathan Badeen:
Absolutely. And I think, you know, you really shouldn't try to predict what somebody else wants anyway because I mean like I think there's you look at it, you know, oh, I'm looking for somebody who's interested in the same things as me. Right? That's the key to the success of a relationship. Or is it? Because they also say opposites attract. So I mean like you almost you don't necessarily even know what it is. And so may you know, it's not really worth it to try to predict what the other person is wanting because, you know, it may not be that or they may not even know what it is until they see what it is. Same for yourself, really.

Connell Barrett:
You struggle with dating. Right? Sure. You have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt, the apps don't work for you, and sometimes women put you in the friend zone. It's frustrating. Hey. I struggle with dating too. As an introvert and a total nerd, I didn't just live in the friend zone. I owned real estate there, but I escaped using the dating philosophy of radical authenticity, which I've used to help thousands of men in 17 countries find love.

Connell Barrett:
It's what I wrote about in my best selling book, Dating Sucks, But You Don't. And radical authenticity is why Psychology Today called me the best dating coach in America. And now I wanna personally help you attract your dream girlfriend. So go to datingtransformation.com and book a free call with me. On our call, I'll tell you how my 1 on 1 coaching will help you find your dream girlfriend, and you'll be doing it by flirting with confidence and authenticity. No creepy pickup tricks needed. So go to dating transformation.com, book a free call today, and let my personalized coaching help you get a great girlfriend. Have you ever actually, back back to Tinder and back to some of the features.

Connell Barrett:
Obviously, the swipe right, the swipe left, that's the foundational iconic feature. But there's lots of other bells and whistles that have been on and off Tinder over the years. Are there any features you ever thought up that never made it on Tinder that you thought, oh, man, that would have been a great idea. We should have done that.

Jonathan Badeen:
Oh, there's a billion. I mean, that's actually one of the most frustrating things as time goes on is that you just build this, you know, everybody in that company just had a long list. The list of things that we wanted to make, just went on forever. And, it was just a matter of picking which one we were gonna try. So there's all sorts of things that we wanted.

Connell Barrett:
Anything comes to mind that you thought, oh, man. I wish we'd, I wish we would have tried that, or that was a cool idea. Or maybe an idea that was so out there you couldn't do it.

Jonathan Badeen:
Well, there's I I think one of the my favorites that I wanted to do was a, you know, I won't go into full detail on it just in case anybody here cares or whatever, but it's, it was a basically sort of a a group dating bar hopping type of product that I thought would have been pretty cool trying to use Tinder, which was trying to essentially make Tinder useful at a time when the Tinder isn't generally useful. Because you know, like Tinder for instance, like one of the, you know, the lower usage days are the days where people are out and busy and they've got things going on. You know, the, you know, that's the time when people have downtime. That's the time where they really use Tinder. And so it was, that was sort of the goal is to try to like try to make Tinder useful at those times when you're out and about with your friends and and all of that.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah and the thing about the right swipe and correct me if I'm wrong Jonathan but I feel like it comes down to it's fun it's fun to turn online dating into a game or at least it can feel like a game and games are fun games feel good it feels good to swipe right and get a match of course who wouldn't like that but also isn't there something about the anticipation of the possibility that's just as addictive and just as fun

Jonathan Badeen:
I think so I think there's a little bit of that slot machine effect of, like, you know, let me do one more. I remember back in college, hot or not was a thing, you know, wasn't for dating, but it was for, you know, I they added that later, but it was, you know, it was just sort of like, I'm gonna I'll stop once I get one more when I see one more 9 or something like that, you know. So there was a little bit of that element going on, but I think even just the sort of the swipe action itself ends up sort of having an emotional connection to it, you know, where you're sort of like, oh, hell no, Yeah. Or, you know, they're like, hey. Right. You know, you know, there is that sort of an emotional connection to it. And I think that was, so and it is kinda the sort of that interface and and everything and and in general, it kind of feeds into that sort of almost people watching kind of thing that we we that people like to do. And to me, I'm you know, I like to think of myself as a Disney fan. I always think of Mary Poppins and, then, a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.

Jonathan Badeen:
And so that was, you know, not necessarily that quote being, you know, very cognizant of it when we were creating Tinder, but this idea of, like, look, this is dating can be a difficult thing, and and going through all of these things, and let's see if we can try to make that process fun. Mhmm. And sort of disguising the work. And because Tinder, you know, I think compared to other platforms that predated Tinder, Tinder was a little bit more of a numbers game. It was a bit more go through a whole bunch of people, and, you know, and and that's going to hold ultimately you know, whether swiping through a whole bunch of people and then going out on dates with a whole bunch of other with people, that's the idea is you're gonna increase the chances of finding the person that's right for you. And so other platforms were a little bit more focused on, you know, diving into the person. You'd spend more time on those and all. And so we had to make something that was fun to get you through more people faster.

Connell Barrett:
The man listening to this episode, chances are his biggest the biggest thorn in his paw of online dating, Tinder or whatever app he's on, he's not getting very many good matches, if any. He's swiping and swiping and swiping, and he's just very rarely, if ever, getting that it's a match. What advice would you give that guy? What should he look at first to start getting some of those matches and start getting those great feelings you get when you start swiping right and getting matches?

Jonathan Badeen:
Well, I think, you know, some of it starts with, trying to, you know, portray your best self, whether that be, you know, evaluate your, you know, your photos and your profile and everything. Everything on there evaluates it. And, you know, you'll notice a lot that, like, people putting horrible pictures up there. You know? Yeah. I'm not saying you have to be a model or anything like that, but, you know, horrible quality photos, things like that. And run it by your friends, preferably, preferably women Right. Who can say, you know, either, oh, that's not a good picture of you or, like, yeah, that's not really gonna be interesting, a woman. So I think, you know, bringing people in to kind of help evaluate, I know it can feel uncomfortable sometimes, to to expose yourself, to, to your friends and this side of you or whatever, but but I think that's important, you know and I think also just it's it's utilizing the tools that are there, and that you know there's a lot of tools that are in there from everything from sort of testing photos to trying to determine which of your photos is the best.

Jonathan Badeen:
There's a lot of things, you know, for adding to your profile and all, and those little things, they they, you know, they can help. You know, they might deter you know, somebody sees that you like something that, you know, on there that they don't like, yeah, maybe it'll turn them off. But guess what? That's fine. They weren't gonna work out with them anyway.

Connell Barrett:
Right.

Jonathan Badeen:
The, but but you're giving people you're giving other people another reason to swipe right. You know, and try to keep it a little bit lighthearted. Try to add a little bit of fun, fun to your profiles. And then, you know, the paid features do work. I'm not saying go spend all your money on them. That's not the goal. And in fact, you know, Tinder was what we tried to do, we tried to make the paid feature something that would just break the system if everybody had it, but like if it was something that we felt that everybody would truly benefit from having it, then it shouldn't be a paid feature. So the paid features, we kind of saw as superpowers, and so they're useful, but I'm not, you know, you can get by just fine without them.

Jonathan Badeen:
So if you don't need them, don't I'm not suggesting you know, I make no money off of it now. So don't be right. I'm not trying to push anybody to go spend all their money on Tinder or any other of the platforms. But, you know, some of them do work. So it's worth trying and it might be worth trying, you know, that the last I read, you know, is the average dater, online daters on 3 platforms. Maybe try a little something different on each platform too and, you know, which is your own AB test or, you know, so I think those are some ways it might help.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. I think it's important to make sure that you're expressing that authentic self Mhmm. In different ways on different apps, depending on the kind of woman you're looking to attract and the kind of app you're on. So I'm gonna show I have a Tinder profile. Okay. It's a bit more playful, edgy, more fun and light as if I was looking to date casually. I have a Hinge profile that is much more bread and butter kind of boyfriend material.

Jonathan Badeen:
Mhmm.

Connell Barrett:
And I could mix and match those if I want to. So I think one of the a lot of guys think, oh, you know, I I think one of the biggest myths in dating is the apps just don't work. Dating apps just don't work. And I tell so many men, look, the problem is that dating apps don't work. The problem is your profile doesn't work yet. Let's make some changes, some intelligent ones, so you can start getting the kind of success you want.

Jonathan Badeen:
Mhmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there's, there's a lot of proof that they do work . That doesn't mean, to say that, you know, things aren't difficult. They're they're difficult out the bars too they're difficult every year so you know I know and it's a matter of of you know portraying yourself in the best way that you can

Connell Barrett:
yeah I think that was great advice about having some people, especially some single women or some women, look at your profile and have a little bit of personality in your profile. I have a new client who came to me and I said, hey. Let me see your Tinder. Just see why you're struggling. He's like, yeah. I have no idea. I guess women just don't like me. I looked at his profile, there was one photo, just one, it was a bathroom mirror shot,

Jonathan Badeen:
and

Connell Barrett:
That was literally his only photo, and all his bio said was here's what I want, There was no personality, there was no humor, and there were no other photos to show this gentleman what it would be like to date him. And here's a smart, sweet, wonderful guy, and he's mistaking his struggles on this dating app or on Tinder for him being unattractive. I'm like, no, dude. You're amazing. Your profile is terrible.

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. I think, you know, I think that's, a lot of people end up taking taking it out on dating services as well as online services in general because of, of of either what, you know, the people on there or what they're doing and all and it's it's, it is kind of what you make of it, it's not to say it's all perfect, it isn't, but, it is, there there are certainly ways to have a better profile than than than that, for sure.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. It really comes down to importance. It comes down to the core foundational things, really good photos, attractive photos, and some personality, and not just pure information on a profile. Absolutely. Do you have any favorite things that you saw on Tinder when you were there, any favorite little prompts or bios that made you laugh over the years? Or that could because they were so good, or maybe they were so bad. Yeah.

Jonathan Badeen:
There's so many. I can't remember. I'll tell you, though. I think one of my favorite things, though, is that I don't even think it's on Tinder, and it was a friend of mine, and had, put on his profile, like, the King has some sort of audio thing. And he used, like, an AI thing, which, like I I don't remember if it's Obama or somebody, like, basically an AI, basically vouching for him in the little voice note thing. And, you know, and it's just and it's not like nobody thinks that it's Obama or whoever it was doing it. It's just something it's like. It's a little fun and playful. Yeah.

Jonathan Badeen:
And, and it's something that he certainly attested to. And, so I thought that was

Connell Barrett:
It's different. That

Jonathan Badeen:
It was fun. Clever.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. So it's a nice kind of, yeah, variety, a little pattern interrupt. A lot of my clients have had success with, you know, on Hinge, you have the low key flex caption prompt.

Jonathan Badeen:
Mhmm.

Connell Barrett:
And I'll just say, put a screenshot of a really high credit score. Like, low key flex 8:10. And I get so many matches my clients do too. It's like, oh, that's I think that's a high key flex. It is not even my credit rating. It's just an 8:10 credit rating. Mhmm. So finding ways to have fun, finding ways to enjoy it.

Connell Barrett:
And that gets back to something that I was when I was asking you about how the swipe right is all about fun, because it feels good. It feels good to swipe right and get a match. And I think what part of what Tinder's big innovation was and is, is that it just made online dating for those who got at least reasonable results. It made it fun. It injected fun into dating. I think that's just so important because dating can be so unfun for Yeah. So many people.

Jonathan Badeen:
And I think and I think it kind of all goes back. You know, you're just talking about profiles and injecting fun into it. How important that is because you're essentially trying to give an idea of what going on a date with you is gonna be like.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah.

Jonathan Badeen:
And you don't wanna go on a date with somebody who's not you're not gonna have fun with. So if you're able to inject some fun into your profile, it gives a hint of, like, look, we're gonna have some fun. Right. That's, I, that's just hugely important.

Connell Barrett:
I agree. One of the biggest mistakes I see men making other than bad photos or no good photos, they do their Zoolander photos. I don't mean ironically, they think they're being sexy. So it's like here's my sexy Zoolander, or here's my brilliant, you know, heartfelt Shakespearean thoughts about love and dating, and I'm just like, no. Make her laugh. Make her smile. If you can make a woman smile, if you can make her laugh on your Tinder profile because the prompt made her giggle, that's worth being 6-3 with 6 pack abs for so many women.

Jonathan Badeen:
Exactly.

Connell Barrett:
Because you're telling them, hey, we're gonna go out and have fun. We might not get married, but hey, it's Tinder. You're probably not gonna get married. And if you do, phone us. Right?

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. It's like you're not gonna be miserable, you know, all night, you know. That's that's that's I think what most people are just trying to avoid is misery. Yes.

Connell Barrett:
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Connell Barrett:
Just go to dating transformation.com/flirty30, and that's flirty30. Datingtransformation.com/flirty30. You're about to start confidently flirting with women, going on dates, and soon getting a great girlfriend. Go get your flirty 30. A lot of men listening to this are introverts.

Jonathan Badeen:
Mhmm.

Connell Barrett:
Naturally shy, naturally introverted. And do you have any tips on it could be Tinder tips, or it could be a first date tip for a guy who's more on the introverted or shy side to still be able to have a great connection with a woman.

Jonathan Badeen:
I mean, I float somewhere in between. I think some people might call me introverted, some people might call me extroverted, depending on the situation. But I think, you know, from my own experience, the places where my introvertedness kinda showed was that sort of especially in those nervousness, and I think the more you practice, the better. And so, you know, go out on those dates and just feel like, you know, as much as possible. And you might even think like, hey. Look. You know, next 5 dates, they're gonna suck. They're gonna they're all gonna suck or something.

Jonathan Badeen:
You actually, don't. You know, I hope for something good. But at the same time, like don't, but like reduce the pressure on it, and just use it as experience to get yourself more comfortable. And and the only way to do that is to not, to not add, you know, to not make the stakes high, I

Connell Barrett:
think. Yeah.

Jonathan Badeen:
Practice, you know, practice makes perfect. And there's a lot of, a lot of people out you know, there's a lot of women out there who are introverted too. So, you know, it might be a good thing for you, but, at the same time, it's gonna make it a little bit harder for you to meet. So somebody's gotta step up and try to act a little bit more extroverted to the Right. To make it work.

Connell Barrett:
Someone's gotta lead that dating dance.

Jonathan Badeen:
Exactly.

Connell Barrett:
It should be you, listener. It should be you, the man. That's my opinion. I can't have a Tinder insider, the ultimate Tinder insider here, without asking you about the algorithm. Mhmm. I've heard so many things. The ELO score, I don't know if that's real or not. I hear, oh, if you're struggling on Tinder, it's not your photos, it's the algorithm.

Connell Barrett:
The algorithm doesn't like you. Can you give us any insight on baseball? Any secrets from behind the curtain of the Tinder algorithm. Can that be the reason why a guy is struggling on Tinder if he's struggling or is it just about his profile? Any insider tips there or insights?

Jonathan Badeen:
Well it's certainly you know there's algorithm I I don't even know what the current algorithm is. Is it that it changes over time? There's, including the, the ELO thing was real. That was a way of just, of trying to, better match people. And, but there's a lot of things that end up going into it. And one of the things that really is what, that really is heavily used we found over the years was just like recency. So that one's an important one. You gotta keep using it. You can't and I'm not like again, I'm not there.

Jonathan Badeen:
I'm not making money off of this.

Connell Barrett:
Right.

Jonathan Badeen:
But just telling you kinda how things work is that you have to keep using the thing because we want to show others, like, we don't want to match somebody up. We didn't want to match somebody up with somebody who was not going to be there to answer them, right? We were able to observe that the more that the better chance of a conversation happening and thus ultimately success on Tinder was that conversation happening and therefore the the increase the the more recently somebody used the app, the higher the chance of that happening. So that was like actually one of the big one of the big levers that really there was. So that's one of those things. You kind of have to kind of be active there in order to get those matches. You know, I'm sure the algorithm can hurt some people and help people, but it's something that they constantly are looking at and trying to adjust because ultimately they want the same thing as you. They want you to meet people. I know some peep there's conspiracy theories out there about, like, no, they don't want you to meet, you know, they just want you on there all the time and that they want you to, they're holding everything back until, you know, start paying them.

Jonathan Badeen:
None of that's true. I mean, the best advertising for Tinder was a successful use case, whether that be hookups or whether that be marriage or whatever. Those are the people that we're going to get the other people on the platform. So we didn't care if we lost some people to a wedding. That was amazing. That's how we were gonna get more people in. So, you know, if you blame the app, you're never gonna be able to conquer the app. Right.

Jonathan Badeen:
I will say that. Like, you know, I'm not saying, like, everything's gonna you know, it's gonna work for you exactly the way you want it to and that, you know, there might be something back there that's, you know, getting in your way on an algorithm or whatever, but ultimately, it is if you think that way, it's gonna be really hard to to improve yourself and make it better if you're blaming something else, even if it ends up not being, you know, you. You use it as an opportunity to improve it.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. I come back to the basics of well, you and I were talking about football before we got on here. You know? Go lions. Go chiefs. Blocking and tackling, so important. Just the basics. And with Tinder or any dating app, blocking and tackling to me would be good photos, personality, showing up consistently in terms of messaging people, and doing the core foundational things that any digital platform will reward. Mhmm.

Connell Barrett:
Answering messages instead of going quiet, and being responsive. And those and of course, the good photos, the good profile, and these foundational things. And if you do if you do, one of my old coaches told me back in the day, he said, Connell, if you behave on Tinder the way you want others to behave in ways that'll make them feel good, responsive, show up, good photos, if If you make the app happy, the app is gonna make you happy or more likely make you happy.

Jonathan Badeen:
Absolutely.

Connell Barrett:
And the algorithm won't punish you.

Jonathan Badeen:
No. And, you know and the better you make the profile too. Like, I don't. I don't know what the current algorithm is, but, like, it probably does hurt you to have just one photo. You know, we I we we years ago, we did research too where we found, like, a certain number, that there were a certain number of photos, and obviously not every photo is that, you know, equal to the the next, but, your likelihood of matching increased with every photo that you added to your profile up to a certain extent. I don't know what that I don't remember what that number was, but so that was ended up being kind of one of our goals is like try to encourage users to add photos up to this point to increase their chances of success. And so I wouldn't be surprised if the algorithm, you know, takes things like that in, you know, factors that in. But, ultimately, I don't know what it is at the moment.

Connell Barrett:
Couple final questions here, Jonathan, and I will let you get back to your day. You must have some fun stories about strangers coming up to you and saying, hey, you owe me a drink? My last date was a disaster. She ghosted me. Or the opposite, you know, I can't even imagine how many weddings you've been invited to. Oh, yeah. Any fun anecdotes of Tinder people either blaming you or praising you or both?

Jonathan Badeen:
It's, you know, it's usually praised. I mean, every once in a while, somebody will say something, but I think most people probably, if they had bad experiences, they might keep it to themselves, to be nice to me, I guess. But, but no, I've had just so many, you know, weddings. I think that, you know, now there's been so many that I you know, they kinda just blur together, but, like, I just remember some of those early times, you know, when I was, you know, there. And I remember when we first made Tinder that I was, like, I was thinking to myself like, you know, hey, if this doesn't work out, if I meet somebody or not me. If I'm sorry. Yes. If I meet somebody who met their husband or wife or something 20 years from now, the whole thing will be, you know, worth it.

Jonathan Badeen:
And I'm pretty sure that's gonna happen now, and it was just really early on, those sort of first people that came up and like, oh, I met whoever. I, Actually, the first time I had somebody tell me that they were getting married, and like the app had not been out that long, that was a little bit scary to me. I'm like, are you we haven't been around that long. Are you sure you're getting married? But, you know, it's And I think some of the stories too that have been really, some of the more proud ones to me, that made me more proud of Tinder, were the ones where relationships that would not have happened if it weren't for Tinder. Like, people it might be, a racial difference or something like that, where they're like, if well, if you gave me the option to choose, I would never have seen the person I would have never have met. There's, there's all sorts of crazy stories like that that have been, been pretty special, but it's, but I do get a kick out of it. Every time somebody tells me, it's like, yeah, I had a part of that. Nice.

Jonathan Badeen:
I really I really wanna, it's, the Jason Kelsey one is the one that hit me the, latest being, you know, a fan of Travis Kelsey and all, and I was just like, oh my god. But, you know, I'm responsible for Travis Kelsey's nephew or niece or whatever. I think he's got nieces. I don't remember. But yeah.

Connell Barrett:
That's gotta be it's a jaw dropping influence you've had on the world of romance and love and dating, if you think about it. 1,000,000,000 of swipes, billions and billions, who knows how many, babies, marriages, people falling in love, that's gotta feel, gotta it's gotta be hard to wrap your head around that. Or

Jonathan Badeen:
Is it? It is. It is. You know, we also used to have some baby onesies that we used to send out that said Tinder tote on them. But, so, no, that was what made it so special was that you really were, changing the lives of people in very meaningful ways. And that's that, you know, that's what it's all about.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. Giving back and making things better for others. Mhmm. I never thought I was gonna be a dating coach. I just got into this world almost 20 years ago because I was struggling like you. Mhmm. I was just, like, friend zone, girls don't like me. I'm a dorky, nerdy, ginger.

Connell Barrett:
I gotta fix this. I was just trying to find love and find some connection, and now I think, wow. All those friend zones, all that pain I went through, now I can help men occasionally not occasionally but help men get girlfriends and occasionally have babies and families and just it's just lights me up

Jonathan Badeen:
but you're doing good work

Connell Barrett:
I'm trying. I thought I'd end with a couple of fun little silly questions. I thought I'd just name a couple things, maybe some things in the culture, and ask you if you would swipe left on these things or swipe right on these things. Alright. Are you up for it?

Jonathan Badeen:
Let's do it.

Connell Barrett:
Let's, Patrick Mahomes.

Jonathan Badeen:
Oh, so that's a big swipe off, I guess. Actually, I'm gonna cheat. That's a super like right there.

Connell Barrett:
Yeah. He's the goat. Well, he's one of the current players.

Jonathan Badeen:
He's a goat to be.

Connell Barrett:
Exactly. Swiping left or right on the Detroit Lions chances.

Jonathan Badeen:
To get there? Right for sure. But, I've obviously got my love that will hopefully stop them.

Connell Barrett:
We've been through a lot of pain, us Lions fans. So,

Jonathan Badeen:
I just want that third one. You can have the next one.

Connell Barrett:
I don't blame you. I don't blame you. How about movies real quick? I'm just gonna throw some. I don't know anything about your movie taste or music taste. I'm just gonna throw some names at you. The Godfather.

Jonathan Badeen:
I'll swipe right. Swipe right.

Connell Barrett:
Okay. The Godfather 3.

Jonathan Badeen:
You know, I might close the app and come back to it later.

Connell Barrett:
How about the Beatles?

Jonathan Badeen:
Oh, the Beatles. I'm a big fan. Swipe right on that, for sure.

Connell Barrett:
Okay. How about Ringo singing? Left or right?

Jonathan Badeen:
Ringo singing. I'd like to sing some of his songs. Sure.

Connell Barrett:
Okay. Swipe right on Ringo's singing.

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. Why not?

Connell Barrett:
How about Justin Timberlake?

Jonathan Badeen:
I don't I god. I don't know. I guess right. I don't have anything against the guy. Maybe just don't drink and drive, but, you know

Connell Barrett:
Left on drinking and driving.

Jonathan Badeen:
There you go.

Connell Barrett:
Right on JT singing. What about you mentioned Disney? You mentioned going to Disney, and you mentioned Disney a couple of times. Mhmm. What Disney, movie or park or character would you swipe right on?

Jonathan Badeen:
Oh, not so much. Obviously, Mickey Mouse. Okay. You know? Don't wanna make Minnie jealous, so I'd swipe right on her too. Yeah. I love all the parks in Disneyland, Disney World, and, you know, favorite Disney movies, I guess, probably, I don't know, like, Beauty and the Beast and a lot of the Pixar films and Okay. Yeah. There's always something good there.

Connell Barrett:
Okay. And, your ultimate swipe right, what is your desert island slash ultimate swipe right or swipe up TV show?

Jonathan Badeen:
Ultimate show, oh God. Let's see, if I was going to watch one of my favorite dramas of all time really, one that a lot of people didn't watch is Colton Catch Fire.

Connell Barrett:
I remember that show. It was on, during the Breaking Bad era, I believe. Right?

Jonathan Badeen:
It's really good. That and maybe Parenthood, but, yeah. Comedies I'd go for, let's see, Arrested Development, not the Netflix stuff. Coupling the British version, the Parks and Rec I really liked too. Those are some of my favorites in comedies I think.

Connell Barrett:
Nice, I love Parks and Rec. I'll leave you. I'll give you the final word Jonathan any final parting words of wisdom or hope or keep it up buddy go at it for my listener the introverted nice guy he's struggling on the apps but he he's he's going at it any final words for this guy?

Jonathan Badeen:
I think I'll have to do something that's on a brand that combines Disney Pixar as well as, well, my work which is just keep swiping just keep swiping Finding Nemo, instead of swimming.

Connell Barrett:
Nice. I love it. Yeah. I tell my clients, it's all about constant, continual, intelligent action, but then adjustments and then new action. So swipe if that profile is working. Great. Once you get a really great Tinder profile that converts, you don't have to really do anything else to it. That's what's so beautiful about online dating.

Connell Barrett:
That's how I met my girlfriend, Jessamine, because I got a great profile. She swiped right on me. Here I am. But until you get there, you gotta keep, swiping right and and keep swimming as

Jonathan Badeen:
Yep.

Connell Barrett:
They say in Nemo.

Jonathan Badeen:
And keep that profile.

Connell Barrett:
Jonathan Bedine, thank you so much for being here. This is a blast.

Jonathan Badeen:
Oh, thank you for

Connell Barrett:
being here.

Jonathan Badeen:
Yeah. It was wonderful.

Connell Barrett:
Great. And thank you so much for listening. And don't forget your dream girlfriend. She's out there and she's gonna love you, but she's gonna have to meet the real authentic you. So go out there, take authentic action, carpe datum, seize the date. Until next time.