Connell Barrett:

Yeah. And those are the three t's. I would add two more t's, take lots of dick pics and text them to her immediately.

Connell Barrett:

Welcome to the dating transformation podcast. Here's your host dating Coach Connell Barrett.

Connell Barrett:

All right, welcome back to the Dating Transformation podcast. I'm your host, Connell Barrett. I'm a dating coach for men. I help guys gain confidence, learn to flirt, and find a great girlfriend, all by being truly authentic, no pickup artist BS. And for today's episode, I'm going to dispense with the normal ten minute opening tip or story because I want to get right to my two very special guests. So let me introduce them, and we'll get right to it. So my first of two guests is Dr. Robert Glover. Dr. Glover is the author of a groundbreaking bestseller I know you've heard of called No More Mr. Nice Guy. And he also has over  years of experience as a therapist, coach, and a public speaker. And he's joined today by a guy by the name of Tony Endelman. Another special guest. Tony is an author, a self help blogger, and a certified life coach. He's also a buddy of mine. Full disclosure. And Tony is one of Dr. Glover's elite certified. No more Mr. Nice Guy coaches. And Tony has just released a brand new book called The Big Stick collected and Applied Wisdom from the Teachings of Dr. Robert Glover. And The Big Stick encapsulates nearly  years of wisdom from Dr. Glover and also in his coaching business. Tony works with guys one on one and also in group coaching for men and also through his integrated Man University. You'll hear more about that later. For more on Dr. Glover, you can go to drglover.com. And for more from Tony, you can go to Tonyendelman.com. That's E-N-D-E-L-M-A-N. Okay, we're done with plugs, Tony.

Dr. Robert Glover:

We can go now, right? Yeah, you've got us plugged. We have run out of time talking to you. I was waiting for you to bring out that inflated Big Stick.

Connell Barrett:

Right? The white stick is right here. If you are new, I have a big stick. And anyway, thank you both for being here. Tony, welcome for the first time to my podcast. Great to have you.

Tony Endelman:

Great to be here, Connell. Good to see you, as always.

Connell Barrett:

All right, so let's give our listener a big old big stick upside the head. So I just finished reading your book last night, Tony, with all those teachings from Dr. Glover, and you're writing and editing them. Tony and my reaction to it was kind of like a quote John Stewart gave in the Book of Mormon when it came out, which was, this is so good, it made me angry. Everything is there. If you're a man who's struggling with self limiting beliefs, if you're struggling with your dating life, with relationships, there's solutions. If you have bad sex, toxic relationships, or if you just want to become a man who is living a life with passion and reaching his full potential. This is that book. So thank you for writing an amazing book, and I just wish it wasn't so good, because then I would be less jealous. So that aside, Tony, let me start with you. So the working title of this book, I realized when reading it, was actually called The Big Book, and along the way, the title changed. So why the title? The big stick? And what is the big stick that you're asking readers to swing?

Tony Endelman:

Yeah, well, Dr. Glover and I, we didn't have a title for it for a while, so we just called it The Big Book because, as you noticed, it's quite big. It's a hefty book. But as I was writing it, two things came to mind. One, pretty much every guy who reaches out to me for coaching is in fact a nice guy who read Dr. Glover's book. And when somebody reaches out to me for coaching, they can schedule a free introductory call with me. And almost every guy says the same thing. I asked him, How'd you find me? What's going on? How can I support you? And they all say the same thing. Well, I discovered Dr. Glover's work, and it was the big stick upside my head that I needed. They all say that. So that came to mind. And then I kind of also realized how much Dr. Glover himself says it. He always says, especially when he's talking to men and he's about to deliver some kind of harsh truth, he always says, with love, I'm about to bring out the big stick. And so that phrase just stuck out in my mind, and I thought, what better title for this book, which is a collection of all of Dr. Glover's work? So that's how that came to be.

Connell Barrett:

Dr. Glover, let me read a quote to you. These are Tony's words, but from your teaching, and here's what Tony writes. This book may trigger you, it may challenge your beliefs. Parts of it may even offend you. On the other hand, this book may completely and positively transform your world if you want it to. This book may well be the big stick upside your head that you need. And should you take what you learn in this book and apply it, I believe you'll experience greater fulfillment in every area of your life. Okay, that's a big promise, and it sounds fucking awesome.

Tony Endelman:

Can you elaborate on we can curse on this show.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah, it's fucking fine.

Tony Endelman:

Okay, great. I held back there for a bit.

Connell Barrett:

NPR is not a sponsor yet.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Tony was about to blow up. Kind of like that South Park episode where people started spontaneously combusting because they were in that case, they were holding back gas. Tony was holding back the F word over and over again. So he can let the F word out and he won't combust. I forgot the question. We'll talk about what? It's a pretty big promise.

Connell Barrett:

Well, why do men need this?

Dr. Robert Glover:

Men need the book because I need it, and Tony needs it. And everything I've ever taught, written, talked about has all come out of my own struggles. No more Mr. Nice Guy. My dating books, everything has been the stuff I struggled with. I had a PhD in marriage and family therapy at  years old, and I bumbled my way through every relationship I've had. I thought maybe it was just me or just the women that I picked, but the truth is, intimate, long term relationships aren't wired into our DNA. They're challenging. They're difficult. We might even say they're meant to be impossible. I struggled with dating in my late s after  years of marriage, so I wrote about what I struggled with. Sounds like maybe you were inspired in a similar way. And whether it's managing my money, whether it's living up to my potential, whether it's overcoming procrastination, whether it's breaking out of addictive cycles, everything I've struggled with, I realize other men struggle with them, too. So that's what I've always talked about, written about anything I've ever done. And so everything Tony has put together is a collaboration of all my courses, all my books, all my interviews, all my podcasts, all my forum answers, blogs. And I promise you, everything has come from, I often say, about no more Mr. Nice Guy. It's not a chronicle of my success. It's a record of my fuck ups. So how does Tony know in that introduction? And how do I know this stuff can change people's lives? Because I know it's changed my life. What I've learned through making the same mistakes over and over again was that Thomas Edison said, I've never failed, I've just found out things that don't work? Something like that. I miss paraphrasing him, so I've never failed. I've just found out a lot of shit that doesn't work very well. And every now and then, I actually learn from that.

Connell Barrett:

It's hard to condense a  page book into one sentence, but if I was going to take a swing at it with my big stick, okay, confession. I have a medium stick, but I'm working on it. I would say I've got a Phoenix.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Ultrasound thing that you got a pump for me.

Connell Barrett:

A pump?

Dr. Robert Glover:

I want to borrow it. I quit using it a while ago.

Connell Barrett:

For me, the elevator pitch here is that a lot of men struggle with Nice Guy syndrome, and that makes them suffer. And this book, your teaching, is about helping them to become an integrated man. Tony, can you talk a little bit about what Nice Guy's Syndrome is and what are some struggles men have in that area on their path to getting out of that, becoming integrated?

Tony Endelman:

This must be a relief for Dr. Glover, because he gets this question over and over again.

Connell Barrett:

That's why I asked you yeah, he.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Gave the elevator pitch for me and everything else. I'm just sitting back. I'm going to turn the AC down just a little.

Connell Barrett:

He has his hours of answering that question.

Tony Endelman:

Go get eliminated. , hours of hearing him answer. It pretty much pulls directly from Dr. Glover. I mean, a nice guy is a guy or a girl. They're nice girls, too. But nice guy syndrome is an anxiety and shame filled or shame based disorder. And a nice guy is somebody who carries around a lot of toxic shame, which he developed in childhood, which is basically the belief that he isn't okay just as he is. And so he tries to behave in a way that won't piss anybody off, won't offend anybody, tries to do everything right, is constantly seeking the approval and validation of others. A nice guy just isn't his authentic self. And he operates by what Dr. Glover so eloquently calls covert contracts. Dr. Glover, you want to go over the three covert contracts?

Dr. Robert Glover:

Yeah, for those of us who can't remember exactly how they go, covert contract number one. And these are all of the propositions. And they're all manipulative. They all have strings attached, but it's the only way nice guys know how to try to get what they want. The COVID contract number one is that if I'm a good guy, then I'll be loved and liked, and the women I want to have sex with will want to have sex with me. And if you go online and especially, there's a lot of memes out there right now with female bloggers talking about this nice guy mentality. I was nice to you. I listened to you. I helped you pay your car payment. You should have sex with me. And there's a lot of memes going around where that actually turns nice guys into really not nice people. And these covert contracts do, they tend to build a lot of resentment and passive aggressive behavior. So covert contract number one, if I do everything right, then wait, no, if I'm a good guy, that's someone you'll like and love me. And number two, contract number two is that if I meet your needs without you having to ask, I'll listen to you talk about your problems and pay your car payment, then you will meet my needs without me having to ask. But I'm not going to tell you what my needs are or even let you meet them if you try, because that makes me too uncomfortable. Covert contract number three is if I do everything right, then I will have a smooth, problem free life. And this is a really mature Peter Panish way of living in the world. But again, it reflects the nice guy view. If I've done everything right, I don't do anything wrong, I didn't piss anybody off, or as I say, no more Mr. Nice Guy. If at first I don't succeed, I hide the evidence. So nobody should ever get mad at me. No things should ever go wrong. But again, that's not the way life works. We live in a chaotic cosmos, and stuff is constantly in a state of flux and change. But nice guys really believe all three of these covert contracts. If I'm good, I'll be liked and loved. If I meet your needs, you'll meet my needs. And if I do everything right, I'll have this smooth, problem free life. And again, unfortunately, none of it works. It's all manipulative. It leads to a lot of resentment, passive aggressiveness, and victim pukes, where you're both the scorekeeper, the referee, the player. And look, I've kept my side of the contract. You haven't. And therefore, I have every right to be mad at you and go off on you or hurt you or be mean to you, which often makes nice guys not particularly nice.

Tony Endelman:

Yeah. And I'll add, it's funny, as somebody who sort of stumbled across Dr. Glover's work at one point, and now having worked with hundreds of nice guys and just talking to people in general about what I do, it's funny. I think the title of the book is a bit misleading. I think maybe about half the people who pick up the book were recommended the book by a therapist, a friend, a blogger, whatever. Ex wife. Yeah, but I think there's a significant amount of people who also pick the book up and they just look at the title and go, what's wrong with being a nice guy? Even I talk about in the book, in the intro, when I was kind of going through a rough time and I became an Internet sleuth and was looking for answers to my problems, and everybody was recommending this book, no More Mr. Nice Guy. And I'm like, Why would I want a set of instructions for becoming a prick? So it's very misleading in that way. But the truth is, once you start reading the book, if you haven't read it, you realize, oh, the term nice guy is a complete misnomer because nice guys aren't actually nice at all. They're fundamentally dishonest. They're manipulative, they're immature, they're passive aggressive. They don't make their own needs a priority. They're always seeking validation from others. There's this whole myriad of problematic behaviors that are exhibited by the quote unquote nice guy.

Connell Barrett:

Well, you mentioned the intro of your book and the first words of the intro. Basically, the first words you wrote in your book were, dr. Glover changed my life. What's that story? How did he change your life? What's the story? Take us back to that moment.

Tony Endelman:

Oh, boy. You want to make me cry?

Dr. Robert Glover:

He's going to make me cry again. I cried when I read that introduction.

Tony Endelman:

Go ahead, you tell me. What is the length of this story you would like? Do you want the short version, the medium version or the long version?

Connell Barrett: 

Let's go medium. Let's go medium. Because we have a lot of dating stuff to get to, but let's go medium. How about that?

Connell Barrett:

I'm going to read your mind. Ready? I'll bet that you would love to confidently approach women, get great matches on the dating apps, flirt with charm, and attract your dream girlfriend. Right? But fear keeps you from approaching you're not sure how to flirt? You struggle on the apps, and desirable women just don't seem into you. Well, I have great news. Dating Coach Connell. Barrett can help. He's guided thousands of men like you to more confidence and helped them attract their dream girlfriends. So book a free strategy call today to see if Connell's coaching is right for you. On your call, Connell or a team member will give you personalized advice to help you have more confidence, more dates, and more fun. Oh, and you'll be dating women as your best self, a charming gentleman. That's because Connell does not teach creepy pickup artist tricks. He unlocks your most confident self so you can make authentic romantic connections. Your next steps? Book your free call today@datingtransformation.com. Contact, and grab a time that works for you. Then you'll be on your way to more confidence, better results, and attracting bright, beautiful women. Oh. So you know, soon Connell will stop taking on new clients. So book a call today while you still can. Go to datingtransformation.com contact and transform your love life. Bye.

Tony Endelman:

Well, genuinely, I think the best place to start is a really heartbreaking time in my life, which was ten years ago. I was living in Omaha, which is where I'm from. I live in New Orleans now, but right before I turned  years old, my father died suddenly and unexpectedly, and he was like the picture of health. Didn't smoke, didn't drink, ate healthy, worked out every day. I mean, everybody loved him. It was a real shock to not just my family, but our entire community. And that sent me down. I mean, at first, it kind of sent me into a pretty dark depression, but it sent me down this path of self exploration, because up until then, I wasn't really living the kind of life that I wanted to be living. I wasn't living up to my potential. I was pretty miserable. I hated what I was doing for work. My dating life was pretty much nonexistent. I was stagnant and bored in Omaha, but I didn't know how to change any of that. I was pretty comfortable in my own misery, and I think psychologists even have a name for that called comfortable misery. And that's where I was. But losing my father, really, it made me examine my life, and it made me realize, okay, this shit's pretty unpredictable. It could end at any time. Maybe I need to make some changes. So the first big change I made, which was very difficult for me, was I moved to New Orleans, which is where I live now purely because I fell madly in love with the city, and I thought, maybe moving to a place that I find really magical that enlivens me, will cure all my woes. And I was wrong about that. I brought all my bullshit with me. And when I got to New Orleans, as much as I loved the city, I found myself in another toxic job. I found myself repeating the same toxic relationship patterns. And I started dating this woman that I became very infatuated with, and she kind of led me to believe that I was the most incredible man on Earth and then dumped me very abruptly and very cruelly. And here I was again in this very dark place. But instead of blaming everyone else, blaming her, dismissing her as crazy, like I used to do in the past, for some reason, I just started examining myself in my own behavior, because at some point, you start repeating the same patterns. At some point you have to go, okay, something's going on with me. And so, like I mentioned earlier, I kind of became an Internet detective and kind of went down the rabbit hole, as many people do, and just started looking for answers. I really didn't know what I was looking for, but I just started immersing myself in psychological research and studies on human behavior and relationships and all that stuff. Kind of fascinated me anyway, but I didn't necessarily know what I was looking for or what might actually help me. And then I noticed everywhere I was looking, every blog, every corner of the Manosphere, everybody made mention of one book that was like the ultimate game changing manifesto on becoming the man you want to be. And that book was Dr. Glover's book. Don't worry, Mr. Nice Guy. And I read the book, and it was just like this exasperating look in the mirror. It was a big fucking stick upside my head. And that led me to reach out to Dr. Glover. And at that time, I was actually getting my life coaching certification. And so I told Dr. Glover in an email, hey, I'm getting my life coaching certification. I just read your book. Blew my mind. How can I be involved? And so I flew up to Seattle for one of his workshops. That was the first time I met him. And that was, I think, six or seven years ago. After that workshop, which was a pretty transformative experience, I sort of pestered Dr. Glover. I made a conscious effort to stay in touch with him and tried to cultivate a relationship with him, and it worked.

Connell Barrett:

What moment?

Dr. Robert Glover:

I'm easy. I really am.

Connell Barrett:

What moment from the workshop or any moment in your path with him? What breakthrough moment can you recall? What game changing moment stands out to you?

Tony Endelman:

Well, the workshop well, the moment that stands out from the workshop is the first thing he ever said to me was that it was set up straight Friday night. It was a Friday night and there were about twelve of us I think from all guys from all over the world just getting to know each other, just sitting around in a circle. Dr. Glover gave each of us like six or seven minutes to introduce ourselves and tell our story. And they get around to me, and I am just vomiting out shit about my life and how everything sucks. And the first words Dr. Glover ever said to me were, Tony, you just need to stop doing shit that makes you unhappy. And it was like, those are the first words he ever said to me. And so simple, yet so profound.

Connell Barrett:

Do you remember that, Dr. Glover?

Dr. Robert Glover:

I thought I told him to sit up straight because Tony's a really tall guy and no chairs fit him. What I recall is he was like this in the chair. Tony, your life might improve if you sat up straight. I actually got to talk to Tony's mom, I don't know, about six months ago, he and I were chatting, and he was back home in Omaha. So his mom, Penny, wanted to get on the phone, and she says, Keep telling him to sit up straight. And tell him, all right, I'm doing mom's work for him now. But that's an example of where the big stick isn't always like something. It doesn't have to be a  page book to be profound. Stop doing things that make you unhappy kind of makes you think, yeah, so simple. Why didn't I think of that before? That's probably true for most of us.

Tony Endelman:

And then he said, I'm just fucking exhausted just listening to you.

Dr. Robert Glover:

I do say that to men occasionally. I go, I bet your life is exhausting because I'm exhausted. I've been listening to enough guys tell enough stories for almost  years. If I'm worn out, they must be worn out.

Tony Endelman:

Tony, a lot of these guys go ahead, I'm sorry.

Connell Barrett:

Hold your thoughts, because I want to hear what you were going to say about other guys, but just because I'm dying to know. What things were you doing at that time that were making you unhappy? And then what did you start doing instead?

Tony Endelman:

Well, king of the major things. It did make me take stock of my life and go, okay, I'm chasing this thing called happiness, which is an abstract concept that none of us can really describe or define. It does actually make sense for me to look at my life and, what are the things making me unhappy? Why don't I get rid of those things? So I really started getting to work on that. And the first thing was I took a break from dating. I was having a lot of negative experiences accumulate, and I mean, I'd had a lot of success, but I was getting kind of burnt out on it. Nothing was really panning out. I took a break, and then I focused on my career, and I was in this very toxic job that I got out of, and I went, like, just balls out into pursuing this coaching and writing and thing and some of my other entrepreneurial endeavors. I got rid of the two biggest things in my life that were just making me miserable. And I really started changing my mindset a lot, too. I started practicing gratitude. I started journaling, I started meditating. I started replacing my negative thoughts. I started learning how to observe my negative thoughts, notice them, and replace them with healthier, more productive thoughts. But it really was just kind of going, okay, what is just making me miserable? I need to stop fucking around with that and start pursuing things that actually light me up inside.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah. Sounds like a needed stick in the head from Dr. Glover, but I am kind.

Tony Endelman:

To add on to that, I was going to say one of the things about Dr. Glover's workshop in general that I found really transformative was, first of all, a lot of those guys, most of them, their problems were way worse than mine. My problems seemed kind of absurd in comparison. A lot of them were going through really bitter, nasty divorces. Some of them were addicted to porn and masturbation. Some were addicted to booze. And so the thing about that workshop that was so transformative for me was, number one, I was dreading the whole thing because I had spent my entire life trying to gain the affection, attention and approval of women. So the thought of spending that much time with a bunch of dudes didn't seem like much fun. But it was almost immediately transformative because it was a bunch of dudes revealing themselves to each other, sharing their deepest insecurities, and we all bonded within minutes. And that was very refreshing and revealing and cathartic and therapeutic. And I left that first night of the workshop feeling a lot lighter, feeling a lot more positive, a lot better about my place in the world. And it really proved to me the power, the healing power of being in some sort of men's group. And that's one of the things that Dr. Glover preaches so often, and I talk about so often in this new book, is you can't do this shit alone. You have to work with a coach, join a men's group, surround yourself with positive, supportive, encouraging people.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah.

Tony Endelman:

And that's what Dr. Glover's workshop, that first workshop, really opened my eyes to.

Connell Barrett:

Well, let's get into the book, because the book is basically a workshop,  plus pages of really great workshop guidance. And there are so many different parts of the book, it's divided into several different sections. Right? There's the nice guy syndrome section. There's a whole section about attraction, which we're going to talk about conscious dating, sex and sexuality. And so I want to dig into the book a little bit, and let's start with the idea of telling the truth. Early on in the book, we talk about the importance of telling the truth in our lives to ourselves and to other people. What might that look like in a practical way, for a man going about his life? Either. Maybe it's dating. Maybe it's just interpersonal relationships in general. How can we tell better, deeper truths?

Tony Endelman:

You want to take that one, Doc?

Dr. Robert Glover:

I like that question a lot, because that's one of the things that, for me, as I began what I'll call my journey of nice guy recovery is that my then wife, second wife basically said, if you don't go to therapy, I'm leaving you. If you don't go get help, whatever, I'm leaving you. Even though we'd only been married about two years, and she was unhappy all the time and making me miserable, I don't want to lose her. So I'll go get therapy. And again, I already had a doctor in marriage and family therapy. I'd never been to therapy. And she said, you're a sex addict. So I said, you need to go to sex addicts. So I went to Sex Addicts Anonymous in one session, found out I was not a sex addict. I wasn't having enough sex to be a sex addict, and she thought I was a sex addict because I wanted to have sex with her, and she didn't. That was only two years into a marriage. But what was transformative for me. I know we've used that word a lot already on this call is that in this group, it was all men met at, like, : A.m.. And in this group of men, I could just start revealing myself. I grew up in a fundamental Christian church. I grew up with a critical father, so I always hid anything that might upset him. I grew up during the angry feminism of the, so don't be a bad man. Or My mother raised me to be different from my father, so I'd grown up with this kind of teflon veneer of hiding anything that might upset anybody or get a negative reaction. And so in this group, I'd go and just reveal my deepest, darkest stuff. And it really wasn't all that deep and dark, but it was a big leap for me. I'm thinking, those guys are sitting there going, thanks for sharing, Robert. Why the hell are you even here? But it was beautiful because for the first time in my life, I just revealed myself. And I thought nobody had huge negative reactions from me telling the truth. So the first thing I started working on before I even knew I was doing, quote, nice guy recovery was to begin telling the truth. And I remember a real early experience with this is that I was working with a female therapist. I joined a men's group that she led for guys working around sexual shame. And I was having an individual session with her, and I was complaining about my wife. And I said, she talks all the time. Just yeah, same old thing. And I just get so tired, so bored listening to her just tell the same stuff over and over and over again. And the woman who's older than me kind of this kind of a sweet older woman said, the therapist said you don't have to listen. And she said I said, Say that again. You don't have to listen if you don't want to. If you're not interested, it'd be more honest to just say you're not interested. I said, I can't do that. I said, I remember my words. I said, It is carved in stone. You have to listen to a woman talk until she is done talking. And I go, I know because my mother taught me that, so I know it must be true. And she goes, Actually, it's unloving for you to pretend you're listening trying to fix her so she'll shut up and quit talking or trying to distract her or really planning out what you're going to do next week and not really paying attention. It'd be more loving to say I'm not interested or I can't listen, right? I said, you don't know my wife. I said, that will just bring Armageddon if I was to tell her that truth, okay? So I had the opportunity not too long after that, and she was carrying on about something that I'd heard her carry on about multiple times before. And I can't say that I did this impeccably, but I took a beginner's stab at it, and I said I said, I'm really tired, and I just don't really have the bandwidth to listen right now.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah.

Dr. Robert Glover:

And she goes, okay. And I thought, okay, is the roof coming down yet? Is a hurricane coming? And she went off. And about  minutes later, she came back and she said, thank you for telling me that you weren't available to listen. I went and called a friend and talked it out and everything's okay. And I'll go, really?

Connell Barrett:

She really appreciated it.

Dr. Robert Glover:

She told me, thank you for telling her. Now, if I really told her the whole truth, I'd say I am fucking bored and don't give a shit about what you're talking about. That would have been the whole truth, but I at least gave a version of it that said, I'm not available to listen. And I came to realize, all right, the truth doesn't usually destroy people. And one of the things I teach men is that women can handle a difficult truth, but they don't do well with being lied to. So then one of the practices I developed is that I realized as, quote, a nice guy, even though I thought I was an honest, authentic person. I like that you use that term in your work with men. But I told little white lies about everything. I shaded everything, left stuff out, didn't give the whole truth, tried to misdirect people's attention, so they wouldn't see where I'd fucked up. One of the things I started doing is that, again, this kind of honesty thing was an early part of my recovery. Anytime I caught myself rehearsing a truth that I was going to tell my wife because I thought she might be upset about something, I even told my wife. I said, you know what, I don't tell you the truth a lot. And she goes, I know. And I said, here's what I'm going to do every time I catch myself rehearsing a story to give you so that maybe you will be less mad at me, I'm going to come home and tell you I was going to lie to you. Here's the story I was going to tell you, and here's the whole truth without any embellishment. And I started doing that when I told her I'd be home at : from work. And I knew I wasn't going to leave till after five. But I didn't want her to be upset if I told her it'd be later. And then I'm driving home saying, oh, the traffic was so terrible and just stuck at every stoplight and this. And I'd get home and I'd walk in the door and say, hey, I was going to lie to you. I was going to tell you that's.

Connell Barrett:

Great example of the power of honesty.

Tony Endelman:

Yeah.

Dr. Robert Glover:

And she never got mad. I said, the truth was, I told you I'd be home at five because I thought you'd be mad if I was home later. She goes, I just wanted to know what time you're going to walk in the door so I'd have dinner ready. Well, that's it. It wasn't like I had to meet some expectation and now I got to lie to you. I would tell her the whole truth. I tell her what's going to lie about, tell her the truth. And she never had a negative reaction to it. She just usually says, thanks for telling me the truth. And I thought, wow, how come no one taught me this when I was a kid?

Connell Barrett:

That reminds me of a moment a few years ago. I had just begun dating a woman who's now my friend, just a friend, but at the time we were dating and we were three or four dates in, and she said to me, have you ever cheated on any of your exes? And I'm a big believer in what I call just radical authenticity. Just being really honest, filtering it with empathy, but just real candor. Excuse me? And I said, yeah, I cheated on two of my last three girlfriends. And she gave me the most interesting reaction. It was a combination of surprise and excitement and a little bit of fear. Not fear of me as a person, but like, whoa, am I dating a guy who's going to cheat on me? But also there was like this sense of, oh, my God. Thank you. Excited that I was telling her the truth, and then she asked me about it, and I told her why I did it. And it actually was a really honest, great, vulnerable conversation we both had. And that just reminded me what you said just reminded me of the importance of telling women the truth with empathy, with the right filter, but being really genuine. Any thoughts on that, Tony, about the importance of telling the truth just in life in general, any kind of relationship, whether it's with women or the people in your life?

Tony Endelman:

Yeah. I mean, for me, my friends who've known me for a long time, they probably would not accuse me of being dishonest. I'm pretty open and upfront, I've noticed. I think they always appreciated that about me. For me, it was always my dishonesty, or shall we say inauthenticity was most pronounced when I was interacting with women who I was interested in or dating. So, like, an example that comes to mind is, I don't want to get married. I think marriage is kind of insane. And in the past, if I was on a date with a woman and she asked me, what do you want? Do you want to get married? I wouldn't tell her the truth. I would say, oh, yeah, sure, because I wouldn't want to offend her, piss her off or lose her. And that's silly because why wouldn't I tell her the truth about that? If we want two different things, if we're going two different places, then it's best that we tell you the truth and go our separate ways. So that's something. Now I just tell the truth. I say, no, I don't want to get married. I think it's insane. And if the woman agrees with me and appreciates that I feel that way and feels a similar way, that makes sense for us to keep dating. And if she wants to get married, then it makes sense for us not to keep dating. So those are the kinds of things I would keep secret or I would hide or I just wouldn't be honest about. I would hide my real feelings, my real opinions. And again, because of my nice guy bullshit, I didn't want to rock the boat. I didn't want to piss anyone off. I didn't want to offend anybody. And most prominently, particularly if she was, like, a beautiful woman or something or somebody that I was interested in, I thought I might lose her if I told her the truth. I thought she might not want to date me anymore. And a common characteristic of nice guy syndrome is the scarcity of mindset. So I would think, oh, boy, if I tell this woman the truth, I'm going to scare her off, and I'm never going to meet another woman this cool or this beautiful or whatever. Again, for me, it was most prominent when I was in my dating life.

Connell Barrett:

Right so if you're on a first date, let's get into some dating stuff here because there's a lot of dating related chapters in the book, chapter on attraction, a chapter on conscious dating, and there's some really great stuff. Can you talk about any tips or guidelines on being truthful on a date or when talking with a woman who you are attracted to? Dr. Glover, what are your thoughts there?

Dr. Robert Glover:

Oh my goodness. Let's back that up a little bit because I've worked with men for a long time and as I said, I learned to date in my late forties, and I was a terribly bad dater before then. I was one of those guys that once I got the woman, I stayed with her no matter if she was a good fit or not, because I didn't know how to date. And so when I started getting good at it, guys started saying, teach me. And I thought, I'm not a dating guru. But they said, but you're having success, what are you doing? And so in talking with men about dating, one of the most constant themes is, well, pretty women make me anxious. And I've come to realize, I think that's a universal truth is that if you are attracted to somebody, especially if you're a guy and you're physically attracted to a woman, it's going to make you anxious. You've turned into what I've heard called a sexual celebrity. Would you walk up to George Clooney or Brad Pitt if you saw him in the mall and just start talking to him? No. And if you did, you'd be really nervous and you'd probably be a real geek if you tried to approach them. That's what happens with most guys and pretty women is that we put them up there on the George Clooney Brad Pitt celebrity pedestal and we get nervous. And what I found is, okay, I tell guys that makes you normal, makes you normal. If you're really attracted to a woman, you're going to get nervous. And if you get nervous, probably a lot of your really bad traits are going to come out and that she's also going to see, and then you're going to wait thinking, oh, attractive women just aren't attracted to me. That gets perpetuated. And so you get more and more nervous. And then so many guys I work with only want to date the most attractive women, but these are the very women that they are terrified of actually even having a conversation with. So they're of course never going to go on a date with a woman. So a core piece that I've been teaching men that worked for me is I just work with men about learning to become a social animal, to just get out and learn to start being social with people, to interact with people with no attachment to outcome. You're not trying to make anything happen. Guys will say, well, how do I approach that? Girl I like. I go, what do you mean, you like? Well, yeah, I like her. I want to talk to her. I go, she's standing all the way across the fucking room. How do you know you like her? She's pretty. I go, okay, that's a different thing. She's pretty, and you're attracted to her, and it turns you on, but that's different than liking her. You don't even know if she has a good personality. How can you know you like her? And I said, well, you could just walk across the room and tell her, hey, I'm really insecure. I'm a typical guy. Really boosts my ego. If you gave me a phone number and went out with me, all my guy friends would think I'm so amazing because I have a hot woman on my arm, and I have this fantasy that you're going to be just fucking amazing in bed because you look sexy. So that must translate to great sex. I'd like to take you out. And going back to the honesty thing, I actually think women would respond better to that than some cheesy corny lines. And that fits kind of the authentic piece. But to me, the piece that just changes everything. That if you're just out practicing your social skills, interacting with people you have no agenda with baristas, waiters, waitresses, people sitting next to you, people in line next to you, just being a social person, you begin to develop some social chops that it just feels normal. And I think that does two things. One is, this is what's happened for me, it's what I've seen, is that sometimes I'll get done talking with somebody and kind of in hindsight, I'll go, she was young and she was cute, and that wasn't even on my radar. I mean, I could see that, but it wasn't what was dictating my interaction, because I do it with everybody. I'm interacting with everybody. And then when I realized I just had a cool conversation with a young, cute chick, and I wasn't even nervous because I didn't have an agenda of trying to get something to happen. Now, the second piece I've learned from just being more of a social animal is that it makes you inherently attractive to all things feminine women, dogs, cats, babies, women, or adventure money. And so what happens is you don't have to chase down, you don't have to chase beauty. What so many guys do is they go pound on a closed door like me. Like me. Give me a number. Want to go out with me? And the woman doesn't even know we fucking exist. We're not even on our radar. And what that does is put these blinders on us that we don't notice all the amazing opportunities that are just out there of women, the feminine, sending us these signals that say, Notice me. Notice me. I'm paying attention. I'm sending you indicators of interest. Pay attention to my iOS and all of a sudden, you don't have to be a pickup artist. You just have to walk through the open doors that the woman already opened for you. So I don't know if that even came close to answering your question, because I kind of forgot what it was. But that's kind of the basic foundation that I try to work with guys on.

Connell Barrett:

Absolutely.

Tony Endelman:

I would add something.

Connell Barrett:

Go ahead.

Tony Endelman:

In dating, I think we're all lying. And when we're dating, we're kind of showing up, trying to present our best selves, both men and women. We all want to make a good first impression. Right. But for me, I will say that both the best dates I've ever been on and the worst dates I've ever been on were when I was just being my authentic self. I didn't hold back on that joke. I was honest about my opinions. I didn't agree with everything she said. And again, those are the best dates I've ever been on because those women liked me for me. I was being my authentic self. And the ones that were the worst dates, they really didn't like me for me. And that's great, too, because then I can move on quickly and they can move on quickly, and we don't have to have to pretend to be people we're not. And something Dr. Glover says, but I think he borrowed from David data. But choose a woman who chooses you, right?

Dr. Robert Glover:

Yeah.

Tony Endelman:

Stole everything. If I'm going to spend a large chunk of my life with someone, I think I want them to like me for me and my authentic self and vice versa. That's what's kind of silly about some of that pickup stuff. It's like, why would I go? I think I say this in the book. It's like, why would I go do magic tricks for a woman if I'm not a fucking magician?

Connell Barrett:

Nice.

Tony Endelman:

Completely.

Dr. Robert Glover:

But you can still peacock for her. You can still wear outlandish outfits and wear a tutu and be really silly.

Tony Endelman:

So that's my thought on just being honest when dating. It's like, don't hold back on who you are, like, right? If you have a joke, say it. If you have an impulse, do it. If you have an opinion, share it. I mean, don't you want to be dating somebody who likes you for you, or do you want to spend the rest of your life holding back who you really are?

Connell Barrett:

Well said. Just to put one final button on the idea of socializing and approaching everything you said. Dr. Glover, I totally agree about how women are noticing our behavior. They notice a man who's socializing who's talking to multiple people, especially in a venue where there's going to be a lot of single women, as opposed to the guy in the corner on his phone trying to avoid socializing. So that raises your stature, in my view. And one other benefit of talking to multiple people is you get what I call social momentum. And then you might all of a sudden approach a beautiful woman. And to your point, you don't even realize how attractive she is. You're just in social mode, and you're talking to her just like she's another person, which lowers the bar, lets you be more authentic and attractive, and you might be attracting a woman who you couldn't approach otherwise, but because you talked to five other people first, she's just another person. I actually had a woman. I dated her for a while. I met her in the lobby of the W Hotel in Hollywood, and she was so impressed that I walked right up to her, even though she was standing next to a big, muscular guy she was there with, albeit not as a date, just a friend. And she later said to me, it was so amazing the way you just came up to me and you didn't even care that I was next to Dan or whatever, and I literally didn't even notice Dan. I was just in social mode. He wasn't a threat. He wasn't an ally. He was just a person next to another person. And so I sort of tricked myself into being really confident, and she loved it. So anyway, okay, let's get to some more practical first date tips or conversations with women. Tips. There's a section in one of your dating chapters, Tony, that I really like, the Three T's. Practicing the Three T's to help, quote, create palpable sexual tension, because the guy listening to this is probably in his head about, oh, how do you create sparks with women? What do I talk about? What do I say and do on a date? Could you talk about the three T's?

Tony Endelman:

Sure, I'll start, and then I'll throw it over to Doc. But this is one of the things I think Dr. Glover does really well that I and I tried to do in this book, is to we guys kind of tend to overthink and over analyze everything, and some of this stuff really isn't that hard, and there's really not that much you need to remember, but we think there is. So the three T's again, that's one of Dr. Glover's concepts, and it makes it really easy for guys to remember. And the three T's are touch, t's, and tell. And it kind of goes back to being authentic and honest. It's like if you have an impulse to touch the woman, which you should if there's chemistry there and you're vibing, don't be afraid to touch her. At some point, you have to break the touch barrier if you're going to escalate the interaction. So touch her arm, put your hand on the small of her back, sit at the bar so you can intertwine your legs. All that is being man to woman. It's creating tension on a date. And you're with this woman because you ultimately want to be intimate with her. So you can start breaking the touch barrier on the date. So touch tease again, teaser. Be playful. Be your authentic self. Make that joke. Share that opinion. Don't treat her like she's a sexual celebrity. Don't put her up on a pedestal. Like, tease her a little bit. That creates tension and a sort of playfulness and a vibe. And then the last t is to tell her what to do in a very playful way. Again, that creates tension, that creates polarity. And if you tell her to do something that she already wants to do or tell her to do something in a really playful way, they like that.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah. And those are the three t's. I would add two more t's, take lots of dick pics and text them to her immediately. Well, that's just me, though. Okay, yeah, those are after you have.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Her consent for sending dick pics. Right?

Connell Barrett:

Okay, fine, Mr. Woke. Fine. Be that way. There's another section of the dating chapter that I loved. It's about asking better questions and just the art and the essence of flirty light, good dating banter. One of the biggest problems I hear all the time, and I'm sure you both have heard it, is, what do I say? What do I talk about? Or, hey, I get stuck in interview mode. I get stuck in interview mode, and she gets bored. Can you dr. Glover, I'll ping this back to you. Why do guys get stuck asking bad questions, and what are better questions to ask on dates?

Dr. Robert Glover:

And maybe that's even still the wrong question, because here's the thing you hit the nail on the head, is that I think we guys get that women tend to be verbal. And so we think if they're going to want to be with us, we have to match them verbally or even exceed them verbally. And if you actually pay attention to most interpersonal relationships, yeah, women use a lot of words. I mean, statistically, people have studied this kind of thing, and guys tend to use fewer words. We just kind of say, fuck that, and we move on, and women will talk it to death. Again, I'm making a generalization. But what happens is we guys think we got to go match them and go be as interesting verbally as what they have with their girlfriends. And actually what that is, is that's a really quick pathway to actually becoming what I call a girlfriend with a penis. I tell guys, women don't put you in the friend zone. Men put themselves there. And so even, like, going back to the three T's, I started teaching guys to date. I was teaching guys that basically spent all their time in the friend zone, either never having a woman in their life or just being friend zoned by them or by themselves. And so really, all I've ever said is just don't hold back. Don't hold back. Like the touching. Did you want to touch her? Well, don't hold back. If you want to tease her, don't hold back. Let's go do this. Don't hold back. And it's not a technique. It's just a reminder. Be you. Be you. Don't hold back. Whatever is, the impulse you have is to not hold back. So what happens, though, is then we get there, we go, okay, I'm going to go on a date. I've got to entertain her. I got to be interesting. Like, I'll tell guys, listen, women like to talk, and I promise you, if she's at all interested in you, you really don't have to say all that much. She'll do the talking. And if you're on a date with a woman and neither one of you can think of anything to say, it's probably a pretty good sign you're not a very good match for each other, because when people are a pretty good match, they've got a chemistry that just unfolds without you working at it. And then if you take that a step further, I'm a big fan of guys, especially interacting with women. The fewer words, the better. I'm a big fan of action over words. Instead of saying, would you want to go take her hand and just say, let's go? Yeah, just an action. Would it be okay if I kissed you? Just fucking kiss her with consent. So it's action that's more important. And so if you're not holding back and even if you're even just you know, if if the woman, like, brings up exes on a first date, which I don't know why the fuck they do that, but almost every woman does that, they bring up their ex or your ex, and I just say, hey, let's save exes for second date discussion. Early on. I wouldn't have been that bold about it. I would have always wanted to talk about exes. Let's talk about exes, right? That's second date stuff. And another thing I started doing is creating rules just to basically be playful and lead. And if I'd ask a woman out, I'd say, Meet me here, and then she goes, well, let me pay for half. And I go, no, my rule is I always pay for the first date. Well, no, that's my rule. We'll talk about that. So the second date is, well, you paid latin no, my rule is I always pay on the second date. Well, you paid for the first date. And I go, Tell you what. If you want a third date, you can plan it and pay for it. And so I would create these rules that don't have a lot of discussion. To them, it was just the rule was, wait for me, I'll open your door, right? I'm not used to that. Okay, but wait for me, I'll open your door. And so it's more about the action of how you physically show up with a person and not, how do I sit there and have a really interesting conversation to make myself seem interesting enough that she'll want to keep talking to me. The truth is, you don't really want to keep talking to her. You really want other things to be happening than sitting in a coffee shop talking about exes. You really want more interesting things. I can't agree more. That doesn't usually involve so many words.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah. Beware dear listeners of the dreaded  minutes conversation about your exes. It does not help you. It does not serve you. I like your tip unless you're.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Telling them how you cheated on your exes, then maybe that will work out okay.

Connell Barrett: 

I don't know about that.

Connell Barrett:

Rejection ghosting loneliness, lack of dates, and lack of confidence. For many men, dating just sucks. But it doesn't have to. There's a simple yet powerful way to gain instant confidence and attract a great girlfriend. Be radically authentic. It's all laid out in the number one Amazon bestselling book Dating Sucks, But You don't. Your step by step Guide to Attracting wonderful women and Doing it with total authenticity. Author and dating coach Connell Barrett:has had and fixed all the dating problems that you struggle with. He's also helped thousands of men gain confidence and find love. He's put his best tips and strategies into Dating Sucks, But You Don't so that you can confidently approach women and get dates. Become magnetic and attractive. Even if you're not tall or great looking. Always know what to say to make sparks fly. Get lots of great matches and dates on the dating apps and attract your dream woman. You can find Dating Sucks, but you don't on Amazon or wherever books are sold in paperback kindle and Audiobooks. Getting dating sucks, but you don't today to transform your confidence and find your dream.

Connell Barrett:

Girl, here's what I do. Here's what helps my guys. If a woman brings that up, you can keep the topic in the same category, but shift it to First Date Horror stories and then, say, ask her what would tell me about your craziest, weirdest first date you ever had instead of talking about relationships. That's a fun, light icebreaking topic where she gets to talk about dating and talk about the guy who showed up with his coke dealer, which is a true story on a first date. And then you're talking about dating, which women do like to do. But you're not talking about your exes, you're having fun. You're talking about it in a light way. And then she's subconsciously comparing the coolness of you to the freaky, weird dudes who she normally dates, which can make you look even cooler by comparison without.

Dr. Robert Glover:

You, unless she really likes those freaky, weird dudes. And then all of a sudden, that could work against you.

Connell Barrett:

Not too weird, not too weird. All great stuff. Okay, next question is a short little short question, short answer. Kind of a game. Again, one of the many chapters I really dug in The Big Stick is a chapter about dating myths, or just myths in general, about. Women and dating. So I'm going to throw a common perception at you, either of you, both of you. And I call this fact fiction. Tell me if it's a fact or tell me if it's fiction. And then feel free to take a few seconds to talk about why it either is or isn't. Or maybe there's nuance. Are you guys game?

Dr. Robert Glover:

Yeah. Let's get real black and white.

Connell Barrett:

Cool.

Connell Barrett:

Here we go. All right. Perception number one. You have to be perfect with women. They want perfection from a man. Fact or fiction?

Tony Endelman:

Fiction.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Fiction.

Connell Barrett:

Why?

Dr. Robert Glover:

Because it's not true, that's why.

Tony Endelman:

It's not true and it's not possible.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah.

Tony Endelman:

And as Dr. Glover says, did you say this originally or did somebody else? But, I mean, what do I feel?

Dr. Robert Glover:

A lot of stuff from other people.

Tony Endelman:

What is attractive about perfection? Humans are attracted to other people's rough edges. It's your quirks and your idiosyncrasies and your peccadillos that make you interesting.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Let's add another myth on top of that, because you're right, because guys think, well, basically, once we put a woman on the pedestal because she's attractive, we think, oh, she's going to expect some similar level of perfection from me. The truth is, I tell men in general, women are more insecure than men are. And the guy's going, I'm filled with insecurities. How could that be true? And I go, Think about it as a woman. Since you're a little girl, you get your value from your perceived beauty and attractiveness. And if you're not pretty, little girls grow up with no sense of value if they're not pretty. And even if they are pretty, every girl can look around and find other girls that are prettier than them. And believe me, trust me, women do that all the time. Even well into adulthood. They're always looking around, measuring themselves. That means they're walking around, always thinking, I'm not good enough. I'm not pretty enough. I was doing a dating workshop down in Las Vegas at the Palms with a buddy of mine years ago. And before the workshop, he and I were just sitting out by the pool, and all these really attractive pool waitresses were coming by. And I told him, let's try something. So every waitress that came by, I said, Come here. My buddy and I are having a discussion. And I said, I believe that every woman has some fundamental physical insecurity about herself. And we asked each woman, what's yours? That came off as real competent, number one, because we're asking them to talk about their flaws. Every woman I remember, three in particular, without hesitation, just said, what is their physical?

Connell Barrett:

These are gorgeous women, I'm sure.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Gorgeous women. One said, I'm bow-legged. I go, yeah, you kind of are. Another one said, I have had complexion issues since I was a teen. I go, yeah, I hadn't noticed, but I can see it. Another one said, I don't like the little hump on the top of my nose. Yeah, you do. And I was not picking apart until she pointed it out. And I promise you, she picks it apart in herself all the time. And so that's why we don't have to be perfect. We just know that maybe they're more insecure than we are, and maybe they just want some relief from that little hamster wheel in their head that keeps reminding them they're not good enough.

Connell Barrett:

It's so freeing to lower the bar for having to be perfect in yourself as a man and just settle for being authentic. Great, awesome. Good enough. Good enough is enough for most women. And that's a very freeing feeling to not have to be perfect.

Dr. Robert Glover:

And kind of going back to that thing. Like Tony said, if the woman doesn't just think you're amazing as you are, loves your corny jokes, loves your kissable lips or thinks you have sexy eyes or just loves your hands, that's the shit. Women actually tell me that they love that. They love them. I'm going hand in hand. I can't believe that women say, I love your bald head. And I go, I'm not bald, I'm shaped. But the stuff women say that they're attracted to is not the stuff in the pickup books that says you have to be to get women to be attracted to you.

Connell Barrett:

Great. All right, next question, next perception. Tell me fact or fiction. Women are attracted to assholes.

Tony Endelman:

I think that's one of those nuanced questions or nuanced answers.

Connell Barrett:

Give us some nuance. That Tony.

Tony Endelman:

I don't think they're actually looking for assholes. I think they're looking for men. The opposite of a nice guy is not an asshole. He's an integrated man. It's a man who stands up for himself and his values, stands up to her, sets boundaries, sets the tone and takes the lead, is honest and authentic, and creates tension. That doesn't make a man an asshole. I think some women might be attractive to assholes, even men who are abusive, and that could be, for a number of reasons, things that maybe happened to them in childhood or the relationship dynamic between their parents or what have you. But I think most women are just looking for a strong, confident, charming man, and I don't think that equals asshole.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Well, here's the deal. I'll tell you guys, get out of a guy's perspective around dating. All comes from their own echo chamber in their own head and porn and reading blogs on the internet and shit. Put yourself in a woman's shoes. What women have evolved to be attracted to is strength, whether we call that confidence or whatever we call it. But evolutionary, our male ancestors were powerful hunters and warriors and providers and protectors. That's in our DNA. Women get to choose. Nowadays there aren't really many. That's why if you read any romance novel, and I do recommend I read one or two romance novels a year and they're all formulaic, they say the same thing, but they're always attracted to that kind of dark, unavailable, but strong Navy Seals kind of guy. And what the story is in their DNA is that guy may not be available. I think he's actually a dick, but he does have a fierceness about him that he could provide and protect for me. So women's choices pretty much aren't what you find in the romance novels. Their true day to day choices are the nice, passive guy that's trying to please them, be their friend, fix their problems, hope that she likes them, won't stand up to her, couldn't provide, protect, or and then the guys over there, they're just dicks. Well, at least the dicks have a little bit of maybe a little bit of fierceness, a little bit of not boring. And so are they attracted to that? No, they don't want a dick. But it's even worse to be boring. That's just the worst sin for a guy. If you're with a woman being boring, it just turns the faucet off. So do they go for the jerks? Yeah, they do, because that's the only choice they got compared to being going out with a woosie doormat. And women will try that occasionally and then just usually walk all over that woozy doormat. Right. And then go, well, this other guy, he's actually kind of a jerk to me, but I can't walk all over him. I think I'll go try that again.

Connell Barrett:

Right. Well, I agree with both of you. And, Tony, you said something great, which made me think of a woman I used to know. You said, Women don't want the opposite of a nice guy who is not an asshole. I % agree. I once interviewed a beautiful woman, a professional model and aspiring actress. She lived at the time in Hollywood. And I said to her, "What do women want? And she basically said, not using your definition, Dr. Glover, but she said, we want nice guys. We like nice, sweet guys. And she said, as long as he has a backbone. That was her way of saying, as long as he had strength, as long as he had his real opinion. In other words, he was an integrated man. And she said, we're so sick of men who are selfish or narcissistic or abusive. And what I kind of heard her saying was some of those bad boys, in other words, tap into the strength that they want, but of course, at a steep cost. They have to date an asshole. Whereas you can be a good, solid man, an integrated man, and still be a good, solid, nice, polite man at your core, but also give women that strength. So I think we're all in agreement here.

Tony Endelman:

I agree. I think one of the things that you point out, Connell, in your book, which I love, is sort of this myth of the alpha male that's kind of being perpetuated on the Internet, kind of. I think that if you go to the Internet, listeners probably can attest to this. A lot of the messaging is you have to become a quote unquote alpha male to get the girl, get the promotion, live a great life. And when you picture an alpha male, at least when I picture an alpha male, I think of like the Rock or somebody like that. It's like most of us are not going to be that guy. That's just a reality. And you point out in your book, like, this whole alpha male thing is kind of a myth. It's really just like a debunked theory from wildlife biology. And so my point is that I think this whole alpha male thing makes a lot of men feel worse about themselves because they think, oh, I have to become the Rock, or somebody like that, or I'm just some beta male loser. And you don't have to be this, I don't know, so called alpha male figure. You don't have to be the beta male loser. There's an in between and there's a better way. He's an integrated man. It's something we can all do, yeah. Aspire to be. And you don't have to have the six pack ABS or the huge bulging muscles or the square jawline or a million dollars in the bank to be attractive or dreadful. You do need to, like you said, we were just talking about having strength, have some confidence, have some belief in yourself, have a great life, have friends, have hobbies, have passions. All those things make you an attractive man.

Connell Barrett:

Anyway, well said. Have an inflatable stick. That's me exactly. Have this inflatable stick, which I'm holding.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Up to the camera you've sold me on the inflatable stick.

Connell Barrett:

I'm telling you one, when the paperback or the second edition comes out of the big stick, everybody gets a big stick. Come on, guys, get with it. Jeez, I have to do your marketing for you. Jesus Christ.

Dr. Robert Glover: 

Sure, yeah. I'm thinking, yeah, why not do our marketing for us to do it?

Connell Barrett:

Okay, last topic. And then we'll wrap up. Let's talk about some integrated actions that the gentleman listening to this can go out and take in his life, dating or otherwise. And that's one of the things I really like about your book, is how practical the big stick is. Almost every chapter, many sections end with, here are some integrated actions you can take. And let's start with maybe an internal action and an external action. Perhaps we can talk a little bit about Tony, about self limiting beliefs, how to first identify what limiting beliefs might hold you back. And then maybe there's a couple of external actions that man can go out and take out in the world. What do you get?

Tony Endelman:

I actually think when it comes to self limiting beliefs, I think the internal action and the external action are almost one and the same. I think you have to go out and test your assumptions so what beliefs are holding you back? I guess the first thing you can do is, what is the belief? Do you actually have any evidence to support that belief? Usually the answer is no, but you have to go out and test your assumptions. So, for example, I used to believe that I was deeply unattractive. I grew up with that belief. I had a little bit of evidence that caused me to develop that belief from early in childhood. But as an adult, I had to look at the evidence. Even when women started telling me I was attractive, even when I started dating attractive women, even when I started getting laid a lot more, I had all this evidence to the contrary of my belief. I had to look at that. And you're really good about that. You're really good about getting guys to play judge, jury and prosecutor with themselves. Okay, do you have any evidence to support that you're deeply unattractive? But again, you have to go out and test your assumptions. If I have the belief that women aren't interested in me, women don't find me attractive, women don't want to date me, there's only one way to really find out if that's true. You have to go out and talk to women.

Connell Barrett:

Yes. I do something with my guys where I have them do a thought experiment, and I say, all right, what's your biggest limiting belief? And it might be that I'm just too ugly. Women don't want to date me because I'm ugly. And I say, okay, next, make that case to a jury. Imagine you're in a courtroom. The judge is watching you. Twelve jurors are watching you. What is your evidence of that? And usually he's like, I haven't had many dates lately. And I said, okay, what else you got? And he runs out of evidence. I say, how many women have said to you, barry, you're just not attractive enough for me? He's like, never. And then you can start picking away at this limiting belief and start poking holes in it. And just like in a courtroom, all our brains need is reasonable doubt.

Tony Endelman:

One of the things like Dr. Glover always tells guys to do is go out and get rejected. Go try and get rejected.

Connell Barrett:

Yeah.

Tony Endelman:

And it's like, first of all, if you're trying to get rejected, you're probably going to act more boldly and more confidently than you might otherwise act. But usually you're not going to get rejected all the time. You're going to get rejected less than you think you're going to get rejected. So again, go out and test your assumptions. If you really believe whatever it is you believe about yourself, go out and test that theory and get some evidence that start stacking up some evidence that your belief is fucking bullshit.

Connell Barrett:

Let me read a quote from one of your integrated action points in the book. It's about self limiting beliefs. You write, quote, make it a priority to go somewhere you don't normally go, talk to people you wouldn't ordinarily talk to. Make eye contact and smile, take a chance, pay attention to the garbage that your mind is shouting at you, and write about your experience in your journal. Those are great actionable points.

Tony Endelman:

Yeah. And it's kind of like what Dr. Glover is saying. It's like becoming a social animal. If you have social anxiety to any degree, if you are intimidated by women, if you have a fear of rejection, if you're just kind of lonely and feeling a little isolated, the only way to get over all that stuff is to get out of your fucking house and go interact with people. You can't think your way out of this stuff. You can sit at home and journal and observe your beliefs and challenge them all you want, and that's all well and good, but at some point, you have to get out of the fucking house and go talk to people.

Connell Barrett:

True, dad?

Tony Endelman:

That's really the only way.

Connell Barrett:

Dr. Glover. Oh, sorry, Tony.

Tony Endelman:

Go ahead. No, it's all about you having to challenge yourself and step outside your comfort zone a little bit and face your fears. And we'll pass it over to Dr. Goldberg, but I think he'll agree with this.

Dr. Robert Glover:

And I'm going, yeah. What he said.

Tony Endelman:

Yeah, and I think he'll agree with this, too. Going back to your question about what's an immediate action you can take, hire a coach. Join a men's group. Build a foundation of positive, supportive, encouraging people who can hold you accountable and who you can reveal yourself to.

Connell Barrett:

Beautiful.

Dr. Robert Glover:

What he said.

Connell Barrett:

Final thing is for either of you, before we talk a little bit about where to get the book and your program, Tony, any final thoughts about that? We didn't get to that you just feel it is important to share either one of you, please feel free to fire away.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Well, I'll throw out one piece, and one of the things I've seen from working with men over the years is that culturally, for whatever reason, I won't even try to worry about it. A lot of men identify their worth in terms of their relationship status and ability with women. Like, if they're of a certain age and not married, well, there's something wrong with me. Or if they're of a certain age and have not had sex, there's something wrong with me. Or if it's been X amount of times since they had sex, there must be something wrong with me. Or if I don't have a girlfriend, or if my girlfriend's not pretty enough, there's something wrong with me. And if you can get men to talk really, about what goes inside their head, most men identify their worth in terms of relationship status around women. And then we always find this where I'm flawed. There's very few guys that are out there going, I'm great because I've had a lot of great women, a lot of great sex. I'm in an amazing relationship. And the guys that actually are pretty good at this don't base their sense of worth on that in the first place. But most guys that have any kind of insecurity, which is a lot of guys, usually it has to do with how they view their success with women in general. Which brings us back to the thing that we just said, and I'll keep going back to as a marriage therapist. I've been telling couples to walk in my office, and I always say, one of the best things you guys can do, both of you need to have good same sex friends. And I tell men a healthy relationship with a woman is built on a solid foundation of good relationships with men. If men are disconnected from men, if men have daddy issues, if men think all of their men are jerks, if men don't know how to relate to other men, if men dislike their own masculine self, try all they want. They're not going to get enough women or get a good enough woman to make them feel okay. So the work that we do really does happen in the presence of men. And that's how our ancestors grew up in tribes. We connected with men. We had an initiation. We spent our time with men. It's only been about  years in human history that men have spent a lot of time around women. I mean, if you go back to our grandfather's age, back in that day, they didn't spend all that time around women, right? They were out doing guy things with guys. Now, I'm not talking about, let's go revert to some patriarchal bullshit thing. But what I am saying that as a guy, if you're trying to figure out what is your worth and value as a human being based on how many times you've had sex, how pretty of girls you've been with or whether or not you're married or your wife's wanting to have sex with you anymore, it's a terrible model to use. So connect with men. That's where I feel loved. It's where I feel valued. And as you even indicated, Connell, that if you're in a venue where there are men and women and you're connected with men and not just going around checking out the women or just hitting on woman after woman, the women come to you. And that's been my experience over and over again. I had a group of guys that were all older than me, about five of us. We used to go out of it once a month, the happy hour. And I remember one time, we're sitting in a happy hour, just talking a little roundtable, not paying attention to anybody, and we're about to get up and go, and the waitress came over with a tray of kamikaze. We said, what are these? And they said, oh, the girls at the bar sent those over. There's a bunch of  things,  year old girls, young women. And I was the youngest guy, probably about  at the time. And they sent us Kamikaze. And we said, why the Kamikazes? They go, you guys just look so cool, like you're having such a good time, and we just want to be a part of it. So the point is, connect with men, get good guy friends, get that coach. Like Tony says, get in the men's group. I'm in a men's program. My recovery work from Nice Guy Syndrome began in a men's group. And so you want a great kick ass life, and if you want to attract the best women, build that on a foundation of good relationships with men.

Connell Barrett:

Fantastic. The book is called The Big Stick by Tony Endelman, based on  years of work by Dr. Glover. And, yeah, it's  years of wisdom packed into a few hundred pages. I absolutely recommend you go out and find it. Tony, where can our listener go and get your book?

Tony Endelman:

Amazon? They can go to my personal website, Tonyendoland.com. They can also go to Bigstickbook.com and read all about the book and kind of the backstory of it. And there's also a whole bunch of free downloads and shit that are supplemental free inflatable sticks. If you go to Bigstickbook.com, you can buy the book from there. But there's also a lot of supplemental downloads. Like, there's a complete workbook with all the integrated actions in them. There's a whole bunch of other stuff. Worksheets, podcasts , gifts. .

Dr. Robert Glover:

I think that's what we counted . I can't say gifts because I have a speech impediment.

Tony Endelman:

supplemental gifts, plus good stuff. Good complete workbook. So, Tonyendelman.com, that's where you can read all about me, read my writing, schedule a call with me. Bigstickbook.com all about the bigstick.

Connell Barrett:

And what is the integrated man program? Tell us about that and we'll wrap up.

Tony Endelman:

Well, we have two. Let's plug two real quick. I have a program called Integrated Man University, which I've been running for about a year now. It's amazing. It's an online course. Plus there's a group coaching component. We have group calls every Monday night. We become like a family. So again, that's called integrated, man University. But I would suggest if guys want to reach out to me, go to my website and schedule a call with me and let's chat and let's figure out what's the best option for you. And then Dr. Glover, I know, wants to talk about Integration Nation, which is something he and I and about seven other coaches have been working on for a while now, many months, putting this  years, right? Yeah. Integration. I'll let him talk about Integration Nation real quick, please.

Dr. Robert Glover:

Yeah. So I just got the hat on. We've been talking about connecting with men, and I'm such a fan of it. I decided, you know, about two years ago, I needed to build a worldwide community where men can connect with other good men. And that's an integrated nation. And Tony's been a part of helping to build that. We're talking to each other in May . It's going to launch in June . And I just tell guys, go check it out, integrationnation net, and go find out why. The lone wolf doesn't survive alone in the wild. And neither can we. We need men. So with that, drgover.com is the easiest way to find me and integrationnation.net to go find good men.

Connell Barrett:

Fantastic. Thank you both for going so long with me today. I appreciate that. It was a great conversation. This will never air. This will never air. This was just an exercise. No, it'll all go in as is. Let's keep it real. Let's keep it raw. Thanks for being here, and thank you for listening. And I'll see you next time. And remember, women already like you. They just have to meet the real, authentic you.

Connell Barrett:

Thank you for listening to the Dating Transformation podcast. For lots of free tips, videos, and other goodies, go to datingtransformation.com. See you next time.

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