Connell Barrett: And we're back. And we're back with Lindsey Metselaar, Super Excited to have Lindsey here. Lindsey is a native New Yorker and she hosts a podcast called We Met at Acme, which is a popular and I can verify awesome millennial dating podcast. I know because I was on it, even though I'm way too old to be even close to a millennial. We met at Acme is also a brand about all things dating from live events, mixers, retreats, and more stuff that I'm sure we're going to get into. And, I'm just a huge fan of Lindsey's Instagram, where you can get a lot of really great practical, quick dating tips. She does this cool thing where she gives tips in fours, which I love, like for mistakes not to make on first dates and the like. And her Instagram is at. We met at Acme to get ready because Lindsey's a dating advice machine and I'm super stoked to have her here today. Lindsey, welcome to launch week here at Dating Transformation Podcast.

Lindsey Metselaar: I am honored to be here. Thank you for having me.

Connell Barrett: Your resume is so long, that we have no more time for questions.

Lindsey Metselaar: Let's pack it up then.

Connell Barrett: But thanks for stopping by. Cool. Well, let's start. Let's get right to it. Let's talk about it. We met at Acme. I'm sure you get this a lot, so pardon the clichéd question, but what is the name mean? Where did it come from? And of course, what is that? What's the core mission? What's the core message of our meeting at Acme?

Lindsey Metselaar: The name came because I was very single at the time of starting my podcast and I was frequenting Acme, which is a club in the city, and I had met some people there and I knew some people that met there and it just kind of rolled off the tongue and sounded nice. And the second part of the question was, remind me again how.

Connell Barrett: Primarily. You primarily talk to millennials, as I understand it. Yeah. What's the core mission? What's the core message?

Lindsey Metselaar: I do talk to millennials. The core message is I'm trying to be like a big sister character to a lot of people in the dating world. And the message is, like, you are amazing. You know, your self-worth and date like you are. The shit they like. It's about you choosing them, not them choosing you. And here are some ways to make dating not as stressful. And that's when the rules come in.

Connell Barrett: Ah, I don't know if you ever want to write a book, but that's not a bad working title date. Like you're the shit instead of the fuck trope. Maybe you'll start the shit, you're the shit.

Lindsey Metselaar: This shit through shit coming back. Bring back the shit.

Connell Barrett: Tell us a little bit more about your origin story, whether it's meeting people at Acme or even before then. I'm fascinated by how people go from doubtful, struggling with lack of confidence to finding the one. You're happily married. You've done something very right. But can you talk a little bit about your origin story? Maybe when you weren't a dating expert or didn't have kind of a handle on how to do this effectively?

Lindsey Metselaar: Yeah, well, what's funny is that I always thought that I was an expert, right? Like, I was that overconfident from the beginning where I thought that I was doing everything right all the time until I was badly dumped. And it was kind of like a wake-up call where I was like, Oh my God, you know, I'm not doing the right things or I'm not as good as I think I am. And the reason I thought I was good was that I was always great at helping friends text and like the banter stuff that was like something I was confident about that I knew what I was doing. But when it came to and like I could get people to date me, right? But then when it came to long-lasting relationships, it was a little bit harder. And so I had a friend come over and we were just kind of talking about our dating life. And I was, this was like five years ago, and I was like, Why don't we just record this conversation? There is no podcast out there that's about dating right now. It's like news and crime, and I feel like other people can relate to this chaos that is dating, especially in New York City, but as a millennial. And so we just recorded it and we released it and the rest is history.

Connell Barrett: Tell me a bit more about what it's like dating as a millennial now or then. Basically, what do millennials have to take under consideration, deal with, and endure versus other generations? I'm Gen X and some people are younger now than millennials. What is it about millennials that makes them different from others?

Lindsey Metselaar: Millennials have so many different mediums when it comes to dating. It is all of these different ways to communicate. So Snapchat, Instagram, tik tok, Pinterest, and Venmo, like anything, is a dating app for millennials. And so it gets complicated. Like we're overstimulated. We just have too many different modes of communication that often we're not communicating at all as millennials. And with the dating apps, which everyone has, I guess every generation has, but we get desensitized to just like swiping and swiping and swiping. And so I think it's just between communication struggles and having too many options. As a millennial dater, it can be really hard to sift through the noise and stick with something.

Connell Barrett: So when one of my male clients says, Oh, Connell, I've got all these matches, but every time I ask a woman out, she finds a reason not to go. Or maybe she goes quiet. Even though things are going well, she goes quiet. Can that be because people have so many dating options today?

Lindsey Metselaar: That could be. It also could be because women are so complicated and so confusing. And I will talk to women about their dating lives and they'll be like, I just don't understand. Like, this person will talk to me forever, not ask me out. But then when somebody asks them out, like right away, they're like, Oh my God. He asked me out right away. And so I think it's just finding a happy medium between the two. I'd imagine in that situation the woman was just like, Oh my God, it was like too much, too soon, you know?

Connell Barrett: Yeah. Okay, we're going to get back to texting for sure, because my listener right now is sitting on the edge of his seat because you're a woman and you're an expert and you have been single. And there's something about a woman giving men advice that means so much to them. I took my girlfriend out with me once, doing in-field coaching with my clients, where you go out on the town for the weekend and their focus all shifted away from me and they were just like, And then what do I text next and what do women want? So you're like an MVP here. So we'll come back to that. We'll come back to the texting help. I just want to maybe share some fun stories about your dating past. One of my favorite tips for men is a fun question to ask early on. A first date is asking a woman for any funny dating horror stories she has because it starts things out in a fun light place. And also it kind of makes him hopefully look cooler than whatever loser guy she's talking about. So let me ask you, do you have any fun, memorable first date horror stories from back in the day?

Lindsey Metselaar: You know this I never was that good at this answer because I got decently lucky. I mean, I had. I have one date that was just like, really mean. He told me that I sounded like a farmer, which I guess he meant as an insult. And I didn't know how to respond to that. And that was just a weird experience. And then I had. So I have liked the mean guys and then I've had the guys who are just like, it's pulling teeth to have a conversation with. And it's so funny. It's always those guys that it's pulling teeth to have a conversation with that ask you on a second date and you're like, Were we on the same date? Like, were we? And I wonder, I bet you it's the same for reverse meaning. Like if a guy feels like he's pulling teeth on a date, maybe the girl thinks that it went well. Do you know what I mean?

Connell Barrett: Right. Interesting. I went by the way back to the farmer, the guy who called you a farmer. Do you think there might have been he might have been doing a quote-unquote, neg where he's like tease? The girl tried to make her feel insecure.

Lindsey Metselaar: It's possible, but I don't think negging works in any negging came from a place I feel like it was created from a place of insecurity, just like this person's doing so well. They think they're so cool. So let's, like, knock them down a peg and see if it works. Negging only worked once for me in college, but again I was in college. So that's probably why.

Connell Barrett: It worked on you. Or you did do it?

Lindsey Metselaar: No, it worked on me. Someone did it to me.

Connell Barrett: Do you remember what it was?

Lindsey Metselaar: What do you say? A guy came up to me who I later ended up dating, and he said. Your legs are so hairy.

Connell Barrett: Definitely. And it's such an insult. That's not a man.

Lindsey Metselaar: And by the way, he had no idea if they were or not. He was just saying that and my legs were hairy. I don't shave my legs, but I'm not a hairy person. They just like peach fuzz. But I was like, wow, it's like, how do you know? Do you know? And it normally does not work.

Connell Barrett: I hate it when guys steal my lines because I invented your legs are hairy. That's annoying. I get no credit for that. I got to start copyrighting my best now. I never I don't like nags you nail that nags come from this place. Well she must be above me so I got to find a way to bring her down to my level, which even if it worked, it's like. But it's coming from such a bad place of, hey, why don't you just lift yourself and make yourself as most authentically vulnerably awesome as you can be and see if you guys genuinely can act? That's way more effective.

Lindsey Metselaar: Way more.

Connell Barrett: Okay, a couple more dating questions for you. I went to your website the other day and I saw one tip on the homepage. So it must be an important tip, a little piece of wisdom that reads, if you're confused, they're not interested.

Lindsey Metselaar: Yeah.

Connell Barrett: Can you elaborate on what that means?

Lindsey Metselaar: So what that means is that if and this is more like towards women dating men it's like if your but still for men too if you're confused about how they feel about you like they're hot and cold or you're still trying to figure out, screenshot the conversation, send it to friends. Do you think they like me? You know, like waiting on their every last word to try to figure it out? Like, it's like. It's like that meme with, like, the math problem on the board. Like, do they like me? They don't. Because you wouldn't be confused if somebody did like you. If somebody showed up consistently, made plans with you, messaged you, you know, every day when you're dating and whatnot, that's what that means. And that would have saved me so much time when dating in my twenties if I knew that.

Connell Barrett: Okay. All right. So there's a little bit of tough love there. It's like, hey if you're confused, the truth is they're not interested. They're not that into you.

Lindsey Metselaar: Right. Like, if you're asking a friend if you're like, oh, he you know, maybe he turned his phone off for the weekend. No. Yeah.

Connell Barrett: Okay. Well, again, as a formerly single eligible woman, what are some signs that a woman either is or isn't interested in a guy so he can get clarity on whether she's probably into it or probably not?

Lindsey Metselaar: Yeah, I think I will say that it's harder, especially if it's a woman who follows. We might recognize dating rules because we don't necessarily put all of our cards on the table right away. But if a woman answers your text promptly, if she's continuing to get excited when you suggest going out on dates and she kisses you and smiles and laughs at your jokes. Likes to banter with you and enjoys talking every day. And you have kind of these inside jokes. Like, those are all signs that a woman is interested in you. I think that. With women, we are more clear when we're not interested than men. We will usually send what I call an anti-ghost text, which is like, it's been great getting to know you. I didn't feel a connection, blah, blah, blah. I feel and I could be wrong, but most of the women that I know aren't big on like the leading guys for no reason. And like, we're human, just like we would feel bad if we were taken on multiple nice dinner dates and still weren't interested. We'd probably cut it off after a while. So I think that if a woman's interested, she'll continue to go out with you. There's kissing maybe a little bit more as we get to know each other. Texting. And if a woman's not interested in you, then she's not responding to your messages.

Connell Barrett: Right.

Lindsey Metselaar: She's, you know, continuing to reschedule, prioritize other things. But what can be complicated from a man's perspective is like if you are the kind of guy who's not planning these dates, who's sending that last minute text, that's like, oh, like some like, are you free now? And then you're like, But she's not going out with me. Then that's on you. Then she would be interested in you if you like get your shit together.

Connell Barrett: Yeah. For me. And tell me if you agree or not. I tell my clients. Is she talking to you? Is she responsive? Is there some good energy or are there some emojis going both ways? And maybe she can't meet up with you right away, but if she's still responsive and there's a good vibe, she might just be a really popular, busy person who is open to it. So I say, don't give up. Be persistent, but. But empathetic and stay charming. As charming as you can. I dated a woman a couple of years ago and I even sent this text exchange to my clients. It's about six weeks of texting from her and she and myself matching our first date. I must have asked her four or five times, asked her out, and every time she couldn't go. But she had a good reason and she was still responsive. And she was , the tennis ball was going back and forth. So I stayed persistent and we did end up meeting up and going out. But if she had just gone totally quiet, then I would have just been a creepy stalker. If I didn't like it. If I'd kept asking her out. Right?

Lindsey Metselaar: Totally. And I love that you did then, that you stayed with it. And I think that's the one double standard that it's one double standard that men can get away with is that persistence. And like, if I were coaching women, I would be like, you know, if he's interested, he's going to want to go out with you. But for women, I think a lot of the time we hear these stories of like, oh, I wasn't always like, you know, still had feelings for my ex or I was dealing with this. But like he kept texting me and showing that he was interested in me and then like it aligned and worked out. You don't often hear that the other way around.

Connell Barrett: Right. Okay. So let's switch to the topic of vulnerability and dating. I feel one of the things I like about your podcast is how real and vulnerable you and your guests are. You have an episode. I know that it was a tongue-in-cheek title, but you had an episode that caught my eye that read. It's titled. So I almost got divorced two weeks ago and you didn't get divorced, but it was still a vulnerable thing to write and to talk about on your podcast, this fight you had with your husband. And I thought, what's your view on how vulnerable and real to be on dates, those first few dates, those first few weeks of texting and getting to know somebody? Can you be too vulnerable and can you be too walled off and not vulnerable enough? What are your thoughts on that? Just the topic of vulnerability and dating.

Lindsey Metselaar: Vulnerability is crucial when dating. I think that it's dancing in terms of like when you start to be vulnerable, I would say dates, one, two, three, you like do like a tiny dove into vulnerability. And then after the third date is when you get a little bit deeper and. But you could sprinkle it in here, in here and there. Like, for example, I think that it's great to talk about your past relationships on the first few dates, but not extensively, but more so just like why did what? How come your last relationship ended? What did you like to take away from it? What's your blind spot when it comes to dating that you're trying to be better at and in relationships? I think that just that curiosity is crucial and that curiosity. Creates vulnerability. So that kind of vulnerability is good. I think if you have a family trauma, which we all do, I would probably save that for like the for or after. But again, like going back to the sprinkling, like if you're in therapy and you think that that's a big part of your life and has shaped you, then talk about that and it's one, two, three. I think that it shows the power in vulnerability if you're able to talk about that stuff positively, but just don't bring the energy down with your vulnerability sense.

Connell Barrett: Yes, because a woman might view that, well, if a man was opened up about something vulnerable, but the energy diminished, how might a woman take that or how might that hurt the date?

Lindsey Metselaar: I think that everybody when they're dating is looking for somebody to bring lightness and good energy into their lives and levity. And when we. We kind of dump our shit onto the date. It can be indicative of how that relationship is going to go. Like, Oh, this person's going to be complaining or this person's going to bring me down. And so it's not like, don't be yourself. If you have that part of you, that's, that's okay. But it's more like leading with your good foot or the best foot forward. And so like, for example, with the therapy thing, like I might bring it up to say or like if I work, I bring it up to say like therapy has been so amazing for me, made me realize that my career wasn't the best for me. Now I'm in this great career as opposed to being like therapy made me realize that like, I struggled as a kid, and like, I'm. And, like, dating has been really hard for me. Like, it's just, it's like, you want to just bring that positivity into the date because people are expecting to leave in a good mood from a date. Not like being brought down.

Connell Barrett: Right. And my dog died last week and my boss was mean to me and behind my rant. So can I see you again next week? Exactly. It's not going to happen. Yeah. One of the quotes from my book that I've dropped now and then is to be on a date, be an open book, not an open wound, vulnerable, authentic, which is my whole thing. You can be anything. Anything can be too much of that thing. Yeah. Or delivered with the wrong energy. I remember on my first date with my now girlfriend, Jess, I remember somehow the topic of past relationships came up and I talked about a two or three-minute story about my nine-week marriage. Yeah. And how I felt rejected by all women. And it set me off on this path. And it sounds like the topic might not sound like that. Textbook dating topic, but it was really through the lens of Look how I learned so much from it. I've grown. My ex and I are fine and it's not going to bring the date down as long as to your point, you're not. Energy doesn't signify negativity. It's about, okay, this was tough for me, but man, I'm glad I went through it because now I'm a better person. Like, that's a good friend.

Lindsey Metselaar: Yeah. Focusing on the lesson, and focusing on the takeaway is amazing.

Connell Barrett: And then what I think is cool about that, not in a manipulative way, but just in a way of human connection, is, is just kind of letting this person show, not telling this person, but showing this person that, hey, that's who I was then. And look at this awesome guy you see before you now, not me, Connell. I mean, yeah, whoever is listening to this, yeah, I made mistakes. I'm human, I'm flawed, but I've learned from them, and here I am. We're all just trying to do our best. And I think that kind of vulnerability can be very attractive compared to the guy who's, like trying to use cool lines and nagging and acting all cool and bored. And that just never worked for me. Plus, it just felt gross.

Lindsey Metselaar: Exactly. Yeah. No, I think that's great. And like, vulnerability shows maturity and shows that like, you are ready to find that connection.

Connell Barrett: You had a great conversation with Jordanna Abraham about the vulnerability on your podcast a while back, and she said something. She had this great quote that I wanted to ask you about. She said she was talking about it. You were talking about. Flirting or just about romantic connection versus not disconnecting? Yeah. And she said, I'm paraphrasing now, I think she said logic is the opposite of romance. And I believe you were talking about relationships. But when she said that, I thought, oh, my gosh, so many men go out on first dates and they speak very logically about facts, figures. This is my job. Here are some dates and information, and the conversation might flow, quote unquote. But there's nothing like romance, the fun, the emotion tied to it. Again, as a formerly single woman, what's your take on the idea of being too logical and informational versus more romantic, more, you know, emotionally connected in the way you communicate on a date?

Lindsey Metselaar: I think most men lean towards too logical and now forgot where I was when I learned this. But I remember I was in some sort of work seminar a long time ago and we were being taught about listening and how men listen and how women listen. And it was like men usually listen to fix the problem. Whereas men are sorry. Whereas women listen to be empathetic towards the problem and like to hear you and you know, commiserate or whatnot. And that kind of relates to dating. It's like men lean towards what makes sense of this. And women tend to lean towards like, what am I feeling about this? And I think that both men and women need to take a page from the other person's book. And so men, I think, need to stop being as logical when it comes to dating. And I just had a situation like this. I do like this. Ask me anything on Fridays on my Instagram. And someone had asked Stephen how my husband knew I was the one and one and I asked him to answer for me. I was like, send me like a little blurb of, you know, how you knew I was one and I will share it. And I'm going to pull it up because he. He was so logical in his first answer that I was like, I, I was like cringing from it. I was like, you need to try again. Right. His first answer was, I wouldn't say it hit me in a single moment. It was more of a series of moments together over some time with each stage of our relationship. My affection for you grew to a place where I loved you an insane amount. And I knew I'd found a partner with whom I could squeeze the most out of life. Maybe it was a weird combination of adoration and optimism. That was something I hadn't felt how I knew. I was like, Listen, that is so sweet. But there is like, No, that's so robotic. I was like, There's no emotion in there. Try again.

Connell Barrett: Try again.

Lindsey Metselaar: Honey. And he did it again. And he said, This is so much better, but I'm curious what you think. He said I was just crazy about you. You were everything I wanted in a partner. There were ups and downs, but the highs were insane and always worth it. I wanted to experience that as long as I could. Like how much better is that when he leaned into his emotions versus like typing out some sort of verse? We moved in together. Then I felt that it was the next step and you know what I mean, right?

Connell Barrett: It had more feeling. Had more soul.

Lindsey Metselaar: Totally.

Connell Barrett: And I tell men, like, you don't need to worry about the information, the logic. There'll be plenty of facts and figures and what you say. Try to tap in more into that more soulful expression.

Lindsey Metselaar: Yes.

Connell Barrett: And there are little, little quick tips to do that. You can just start sentences as these are what my coaches taught me ten-plus years ago because I'm so analytical. I will go down the deepest analytical, logical rabbit hole with you if you want. But I know that's just not going to help my dating life or my love life. Right. So just things like starting sentences by saying I feel, well, here's how I feel about that. Or playing this. An improv game I love called Love Hate. Or you have to love things or hate things. And it's helped a lot of my clients just say, Oh, my God, I love that you're into Coldplay. I love that you went to Harvard. How'd that feel when you went to Harvard? What is your favorite movie? I don't know. Casablanca. I hate that movie or whatever it is. At least you're injecting some emotion. You're creating some energy that can create some kind of polarity, as opposed to people talking about logical things, which is the opposite of romance, as Jordanna said, which I liked.

Lindsey Metselaar: Totally.

Connell Barrett: Um. I can't let you go without talking about texting. I hear. So the guy listening to this is like, what do I text? What's that? What's the secret? What do women want from texting? Yeah. What do you get? Got any tips, guidelines, do's, and don't about how to text in that courtship dating phase of getting to know somebody?

Lindsey Metselaar: Well, I think that if you intend to continue seeing someone and ultimately date them, you need to be texting consistently. You need to text at least once a day. And you need to be the man in the situation initiating most of those texts. And it's like you shouldn't be afraid to do that if you're getting a good response every time. It's very much like setting the pace for the relationship and you're courting this person and so you should be sending those texts. You should buy this. You know, whatever stage you're dating, you should have good banter with one another inside jokes. You should not ask for nudes. I think that's a given.

Connell Barrett: Okay.

Lindsey Metselaar: Don't send any unsolicited pictures, but. Being, you know, switching up the conversation, sending like different things like a meme or a funny tock or, you know, asking her about her day, following up when she says she has a big presentation the next day. How did the presentation go? You know, thoughtful texts that show that you care and make her smile and make her day, but not too much like. Good morning, beautiful. Good night, Angel. It doesn't need to be like that as much as it's just like bringing that fun conversation into her

Connell Barrett: Just when you just. When you said that I got chills.

Lindsey Metselaar: Yeah.

Connell Barrett: Did the hair on your hairy legs stand up?

Lindsey Metselaar: Oh, yeah.

Connell Barrett: It was just.

Lindsey Metselaar: It's Sandy.

Connell Barrett: Hey. Hey, Angel. Oh, I once had a client, by the way. This was years ago. He's now a proud dad with a new partner. And I like to think that I helped that baby come into the world. But after one day with a woman, he sent me this long poem. He was going to send her a love poem about the two of them in a boat, on a pond, and, like, leaves. And I was like, Do not send that message.

Lindsey Metselaar: Surfer Never. It's so funny because it's never a good idea to send some long-winded paragraph to anyone you're ever seeing. It's just never a good idea. Like, you save that stuff for in-person always. And that's another texting tip. It's like, keep it fun, keep it light. Like if you have to call them out for something or if you want to have a baby my girlfriend converse or I like you type of thing, like do it in person, always in person.

Connell Barrett: Yeah. When in doubt. Do something in person if you can. If you can. Definitely. Okay. So I have a little game I want to play. So one of my favorite things to do in dating was to play a couple of fun games on a date. And I've been doing this on the pod. So because you're a woman and dating expert, I thought we would play a little game called What Women Want and What Women Don't Want, since you can speak for women, I think pretty damn well. So I'm gonna name a dating category and if you would just share with us, oh, here's what women want. Here's what they don't want. Cool. So cool.

Lindsey Metselaar: Yeah, love it. Okay, do it.

Connell Barrett: Topic number one or category one is first date topics. What do women want to talk about? What do they not want to talk about?

Lindsey Metselaar: They want to talk about. Who you are and who you were and who you plan to be in the future. Who? And they don't want to talk about it. Why is your ex a bitch and how much money does your car cost?

Connell Barrett: Why? I know. I think I know the answer.

Lindsey Metselaar: And, like drugs that you do.

Connell Barrett: Oh, shoot. No wonder I had so much trouble that goes back to an earlier topic. First date horror stories. A woman I was on a first date with, I asked her the question What's your worst first date ever? She said, Well, a guy once had his cocaine dealer who showed up on the date and gave him a delivery.

Lindsey Metselaar: I've heard that story like it happened to someone else. Maybe it's the same guy.

Connell Barrett: You must be out there. I loved your answer there because you said to tell her not just who you were and are, but also who you are becoming, and who you're going to be. Can you elaborate on that? Because that was interesting.

Lindsey Metselaar: Yeah, I think it's like the modern answer to that. Where do you see yourself in five years? Like you should have a grip on that and be able to share that comfortably, like what your plans are in the next five years without somebody straight up asking, What is your plan in the next five years?

Connell Barrett: Got it because of ambition. A vision, a goal that's attractive, right?

Lindsey Metselaar: So attractive.

Connell Barrett: Right. As opposed to. Oh, I don't know. Who knows what'll happen? Yeah, I don't know.

Lindsey Metselaar: I hate being a lawyer.

Connell Barrett: Okay. The next category is, let's say when a man approaches a woman at a bar. What do women want? What do women not want?

Lindsey Metselaar: Women want something funny. Women always want to laugh. So eating with something that's going to make her laugh is so crucial. And women don't want the beautiful. Hey, sexy. Like. It's just. It's too. It sounds sleazy, even if that's not your intention. You know.

Connell Barrett: So open with something funny. Do you have any memories? Any examples? Anecdotes.

Lindsey Metselaar: Even. Even just a simple one. Like, how does it feel to be the most like, the most beautiful person here? Like, that's funnier than having a car.

Connell Barrett: Nice.

Lindsey Metselaar: Like or like. I feel bad for all these other girls because you're here, you know? What should we do about it?

Connell Barrett: One of the funniest approaches I ever did. I was at a club in Vegas years ago, and I saw this woman who I ended up becoming and entering a relationship with, and all these guys were hitting on her with the whole, Hey, you're hot, you're gorgeous, you're what have you. And I, I'd been taking improv classes while I was learning the art of just being a silly character, and I unbuttoned my black button down halfway down, and I just opened up my shirt, and I walked over to her and I said hello. And I adopted a fake Latin lover accent. And I said, Hello, I am Armando in skinny, pale ginger like me saying, that is so dumb that she found it funny. And she called me Armando for the whole weekend. It was. Yeah.

Lindsey Metselaar: That's so funny.

Connell Barrett: Yeah. I think leading with humor and playfulness is better than being all sexy.

Lindsey Metselaar: Always lean to the silly.

Connell Barrett: Yeah. Good example. One more. One more category. Uh, a man's dating app profile. From the woman's perspective, what do women want to see that might make them want to swipe right? And what do they not want to see?

Lindsey Metselaar: Women want to see. Like one tiny tidbit of vulnerability, if that's like I'm in therapy or. Like kind of making something about your life into a funny prompt. And women don't want to see Jim Self these. Selfies in general.

Connell Barrett: Yeah.

Lindsey Metselaar: And. Like pictures of you holding a fish.

Connell Barrett: What is it about that?

Lindsey Metselaar: Men just think that, like, if they show a picture of them having caught a fish, then they're like, I'm a man. So you can trust that I'm a man now because I can catch fish and now you can swipe it.

Connell Barrett: Right? The working title for my book was It's Not You, it's the halibut you're holding. And it ended up being a throwaway line.

Lindsey Metselaar: And that's the.

Connell Barrett: Online dating chapter. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I guess I. Yeah, that's why men do it. Because they want to show. Oh, I'm a provider. Look what? Right. I can bring home the bacon. I can bring home the mackerel.

Lindsey Metselaar: Exactly. And by the way, going back to what women do want to see again, always humor. Always humorous. Like if I'm cracking up from your dating app profile, I'm saying yes, no matter what you look like.

Connell Barrett: Okay. Do you remember any lines or just themes that made you laugh in the past? Things.

Lindsey Metselaar: There was a line once and recently. It was very simple. I saw on a guy's dating profile that I was helping a girl with and it said, Believe it or not, I, which was like a hinge prompt, said, believe it or not, I took an Uber recently that was less than $50. And I just thought it was a little funny. And then there was another guy who recently had something. He said All I ask is for you with the prompt. And he said Support Ben and Jen. Like Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. And I just thought it was silly. Like, I like when guys aren't afraid to lean into, like, a pop culture reference.

Connell Barrett: Nice. Yeah. I like pop culture references. I remember I kind of fell a little bit on loved ones with a woman's profile on a dating app. I'd never even met her. I just. We just matched, and it just. I instantly wanted to meet her, or at least go on a date with her and see what happened. She wrote something like, I'm looking for a man on the street but a dad bod in the sheets. And I.

Lindsey Metselaar: Love.

Connell Barrett: That. I think that's an allusion to a rap song. Jay-Z, I don't know. I think it was a rap song, but it was just a funny little rhyme and it just made my soul smile.

Lindsey Metselaar: So it's great. I love it.

Connell Barrett: Um. All right, let's wrap up with it. Usually, I ask the guest for what I call the three game-changing dating tips. But let's make it for today since your Instagram gives a lot of fours.

Lindsey Metselaar: If I love that personalization.

Connell Barrett: Yes let's make it very Lyndsey personalized for game-changing dating tips for the man who's listening to this. Anything you want, anything. Fire away.

Lindsey Metselaar: Yes. Okay. Number one is following the rules. This means we met at ACME, which has a set of rules for men to follow and for women to follow without getting too into them. I would say just like paying for the date. If you asked her on the date, you know, be a gentleman, open doors. Don't ask to go up or invite her over after the first date. You know, all of those kinds of things. Follow those rules. Get her flowers. And I would say number two, always have the next date set up. Women hate when we're in this sort of limbo where we're like, when are we going to see them again? And Are we just going to be pen pals now or are they going to ask me out on that other next date? Right. Even if they're not free for a week, I still want to have that next date planned. Number three is to initiate all of the things, all of the things. And don't be afraid to initiate the I love you initiative, but let's move in together and initiate that. Will you be my wife? If that comes up, you know, initiate all the things. Don't make her feel like she has to corner you to have these conversations. And number four, which I didn't know we were going to have in a second. Number four, I would say. Don't be afraid to be persistent, which we talked about a little bit. Right. But don't be afraid to be persistent because we're all going to get rejected in life. And it's like if you don't ask, you won't get. And so you never know what's going on in a person's life. Be persistent if you. Really. Especially for men. I feel like men are just lucky. Or in this instance, where, like, they can get away with it. So, yeah. Get away with it. Be persistent. And until you're. Creeping in on stalker territory. Just be persistent.

Connell Barrett: It's okay. As long as she's responsive. Yeah. And or if she says, hey, thanks, but no thanks. I'm not interested. Obviously. Move on. The guy who's listening to this, he's very afraid of being seen as creepy or coming across as some kind of weirdo, which is it's coming from a beautiful place of not wanting to be a jerk. Right. But your message seems to be, hey, it's okay to be a man who's going after what he wants with persistence. As long as there's empathy, as long as you're noticing how she feels. And then. Yeah. To play it as it comes. Right.

Lindsey Metselaar: And I have to tell you, for the persistent guy, when you stop being persistent, she'll miss that. Yeah, you will. I know she will because my friend missed it. And now they're married with two kids.

Connell Barrett: Nice. Nice. Yeah, I had one years ago, but I had a date from many moons ago. Who? I asked her out a couple of times and she finally said, okay, yeah, I'm free on Friday. Dot, dot, dot. I just wanted to see how persistent you are. Happy face, winky face.

Lindsey Metselaar: So that.

Connell Barrett: Yeah, persistence, I say. I like to say persistence combined with empathy, with noticing how she's feeling. And either way. So you're never going to be a creep as long as you're noticing how you're making a woman feel and you adjust accordingly.

Lindsey Metselaar: Be persistent and self-aware.

Connell Barrett: That's a really good place to end the advice portion of today. Let's finish by telling you a little bit about some live shows and events you have coming up at the end of September, in September, and also in November. Tell us about what we met at Acme Events, please.

Lindsey Metselaar: Thank you. So we do these live events, some of which are mixers in New York City where men and women living in New York could meet each other, which are fun. And we do these live shows as well. We have one in L.A., S.F., and Austin. So if you're in any of those places and all of that can be found on our website, we met at Acme dot com.

Connell Barrett: Fantastic. I tried to stump you. Lindsey couldn't do it. I have an answer for everything. I'm going to retire the hairy leg pickup line that I swear.

Lindsey Metselaar: I honestly dare someone to try it. I would just love to hear how that goes.

Connell Barrett: Thank you so much for coming on today. It was a blast and I hope to have you back sometime down the road and see you at one of your events.

Lindsey Metselaar: We love to wrap up. Thank you so much.

Connell Barrett: All right. Peace out. Later, guys.